they might contribute more, but they're not a "better human"

I used an example of someone who lived longer than was projected, who contributed massively to society etc because it's a decent barometer of your adherence

again, he didn't get affected at birth

it wasn't until he was in his 20's that he started slowing down

On the other side of the argument hitlers parents wanted an abortion but didn’t end up getting it.

Trying to judge someone that early on is a bad basis for an argument.

It’s all hypotheticals.

lets face it,
If Stephen Hawking was affected at birth, he couldn't go get schooled properly, he wouldn't have been able to do his things

He wouldn't BE the scientist he became

he'd just be another person, suffering, but he wouldn't have his status and wealth to be sustained

Nice conjecture

thats not a conjecture, he simply wouldn't have his free time to become the person he turned out to be

There are plenty of people who are born with or quickly develop a disability, and considering the fact that they haven't all decided to check out, I'd say they find living preferable

manageable

thats human instinct

You don't think they'd rather be free if they could?

anyhow i gotta go eat, so i'll be back in a bit

It's conjecture because you're ultimately suggesting the key factor in his education was him not being disabled lol
And free from their disability? Sure. "Free" from life? No

You only get one shot my dude. There's no "reroll"

lol... how is this possible?? https://twitter.com/purbrooktony/status/1019483720569548801?s=20

clearly hes had some injections or something 😛

Nah man, all natty

ON THE NATCH

and no, i wasn't suggesting the key factor was him being disabled,

I'm saying the lack of his disability at the time allowed him to strive that far quick enough to get somewhere before it took its toll on his body

He wouldn't be as renouned

As for the free of their disability, you're lumping disabilities with debilitation now
They find living preferable because they're not debilitated enough and have come to terms with it

"Not debilitated enough" some of these people have no ability to move their limbs lol

Some of these people will die by 30

yes, and those people are wholey dependent on someone else

Dependent in a physical sense yes, but not necessarily emotional or financial

financial too then,

Someone else has to pay for it

But this argument that an outside force should decide when a life shouldn't occur based on suffering sounds an awful lot like utilitarian thinking to me

Maybe they have paid for it. There are nigh infinite ways to make money

thats after someone experienced life

We're talking before they were even born

~~Oh god he's got a bigger chest then me~~

Well children have to be supported in all those ways by their parents already

Financially, physically, emotionally

yes, with the goal of making them self-sustaining

a person who can't move from birth, can't do that

A person who can't move from birth can't make money from financial transactions?

I wasn't aware you had to use your hands to make money in the modern era

how will they make the transaction?

Digitally. You know there are quadriplegics who play video games right?

and how do they do that, if they can't move?

You have a face. It can move

That's the simple explanation

Dude was playing Legend of Grimrock with his mouth

Though, those people still need alot of taking care of.

and how does he do that? 😉 mouth magic?

Just because they can play video games, does not mean they are a fully functioning person

someone else set the system up for them

they're dependant

Well, kinda

Alot of them use a pen, pencil, similar

plus alot of macros

You didn't build your computer and phone from scratch

So you're dependent. Checkmate atheists

It's pretty impressive honestly

granded the GPU i bought, cuz fuck that

the rest is part by part made 😄

Pretty much everything you use was "set up for you"

Yeah? You built a CPU by hand m8?

fine, i bought the CPU too

You bought all the parts and then put then together

Someone set up the parts

not this pc itself though, i made one for a school project

Someone built your house, your fridge

I mean you could keep disabled people alive and let them decide later with assisted suicide.

Someone "set" these things "up" for you

and i paid them for it

Yes

So can a disabled person

i'd love to see a self-made succesful disabled person

and i'm not talking about one where his start was paid for

There simply is no reason why i as a parent shouldn't be allowed to abort my child because of a debilitating illness

Hold on, why would it matter if they had help with their startup? Non disabled people do as well

non-disabled people don't have to though

thats the difference

That's not always true

in what way?

In that not everyone has the capital or capacity to start up a business, the talent to sustain themselves through the arts etc

yes, so they can get a regular job to save up capital

a fully immobile person can't just get a job anywhere

No, but they can find work, and they're a tiny minority

It's not like we have legions of quadriplegics

“I cannot give you the formula for success, but I can give you the formula for failure: which is: Try to please everybody.”

— Herbert B. Swope

nice

thats no metric though,

Theres no legions of ME either, so we should do everything to keep me alive at all costs

Theres no legions of terrorists waiting to enter, so lets just let a few in 😉

You're falling into a false dichotomy

no im not

It isn't "we have to pay for everything" or "we ought to abort them"

Yes you are

i'm saying that "we have just a few" is no reason why they should then be sustained at all cost

It's not "doing everything to keep them alive", I'm contesting the idea that they *should* in your words, be aborted

Lets make it simple then, if they can survive on their own, they can live

You don't know that until they do or dont

if i put the fetus out of the womb, and it survives, it can live 😉

You're moving towards absurdities instead of actually addressing the argument

I never said they should be aborted

I said i should have the right to abort my child if I find it will be debilitated in life

god forbid, i'm not pro-eugenics

and no i shouldn't be forced to pay for another who didn't either

No, I said "should Stephen Hawking have been aborted?" With the caveat that his disability could be detected before birth. To which your response was "Pop em"

if he was my child, sure

i'd pop him personally if needs be 😛

Their parents should be able to make that choice

exactly