It was very obviously a quick google survey drawn up by the person who posted it, not a deep political analysis.

A quick survey drawn up can at least have *some* basic sense with it.

I'm fairly certain most people here are comfortably under 18 so I wouldn't expect too much

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSds-17R9ZC6A29FEG-UoArv9S0RCfSxt1b2x0T7gkAbkPQHJQ/viewform?usp=sf_link
I just made this poll in a few minutes with far better sense than whatever that was. It's still low-level and amateur but at least it isn't *that* mess.

Congrats

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x51wrLti_6c

Pro-Choice? Disgusting

Don't even understand the concept. And if you are pro-choice then by the lack of value you put on life you are obligated to opt for the death penalty. Otherwise you are inconsistent.

that's a jump in logic tbh please explain that step by step

Uhm?

No

It is following the same logic

Except nearly all pro-choice advocates believe that a fetus isnt a human life so it isnt inconsistent with their worldview.

no i'm being honest
if you're pro choice then you must support the death penalty doesn't immediately sound like a logical follow-through.

If you don't care enough about life to be ok with abortion you should want the death penalty

It is the only logical follow through

there are other reasons to not support the death penalty for example if you give it to a suicide bomber then it doesn't make logical sense because they would've wanted to die anyways, giving the suicide bomber life in prison in this case is actually more of a punishment as they are humiliated by their failure to carry out their martyrdom.

?

death penalty can actually be less cruel then life in prison depending on context.

That is the point! punishment for crimes are NOT meant to be cruel. They are penalties for the criminal and a reason not to do it for those considering crime!

Making punishments cruel is sadistic and unecessary

...im pretty sure thats illegal too

and it has been banned

what?@Tophet

cruel and unusual punishments

EXACTLY

actually this i formally referred to as retributive justice.
The aim is to make the criminal feel as much pain as they caused to the victims. say the suicide bomber kills people but doesn't die themselves.

if a suicide bomber goes for it im pretty sure even if he doesnt die from the blast he'll lose a ton of his limbs

but i get your point

so would it be more painful to give them a relatively painless lethal injection or for them to have to contemplate their action?

"The aim is to make the criminal feel as much pain as they caused to the victims" Actually, that is not the point of justice. That is the aim behind revenge. Justice is FAIR punishment fro crimes committed. And protecting society from further harm from the criminal.

@🌼Kalina🌹🌸🌹Zay🌹🌸🌹Scott🌼 Pain is not the point

fair punishment is subjective retributive justice is just one example

isnt that what people did back when cruel and unusual punishments were normal

make them feel as much pain as they have caused

yup

but then people decided thats too much

and banned it in most statse

states*

now it's illegal to inflict unecessary pain for good reason

but that was only the physical aspect of it, this doesn't actually inflict any physical pain life in prision.

correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure theres a few statse that still allow it

what it does it makes the person have to contemplate the reality of their action and how it might have affected other people.

well maybe not allow it but are just not as strict as other states

So an argument against the death penalty is not that it is 'more cruel' infact one could argue that
It doesn't make the criminal think about their action for very long it's an 'easy way out'

hm

so what if a pro-choice person have that train of thought

therefore it contradicts your original statement

he does have a point

because there's nothing conflicting about a pro-choice person having that opinion.

so that's why i think it's a jump in logic

because it's a fallacy of composition it assumes pro-choice people are monolithic and have all the same thought process on two seperate issues.

well you guys have fun with this, ima head off cuz its 2 am

gn

You are missing the point

@Tophet lol good night

maybe because i'm less interested in 'slandering' the opposing side and more interested in the 'debate' and 'logic' side of it.

it's more about being intellectually honest to me than just saying things that make the other side look 'bad'

@🌼Kalina🌹🌸🌹Zay🌹🌸🌹Scott🌼 The death penalty is about protecting those left behind. It isn't a "way out" but "a safer way forward"

"maybe because i'm less interested in 'slandering' the opposing side and more interested in the 'debate' and 'logic' side of it.
it's more about being intellectually honest to me than just saying things that make the other side look 'bad'"

Are you high???

maximum security prisons can also protect people left behind so your argument is quite moot.

I have slandered nobody here. To even consider abortion when it is unnecessary is disgusting beyond comprehension! Because it fits the definition of murder (killing without just cause) and it is an unborn child!

the medical definition of a child doesn't apply here if we're playing semantics

so you're making a appeal to emotion

rather then basing it in facts.

"maximum security prisons can also protect people left behind so your argument is quite moot." True. I am not saying that there is no alternative. I am saying your understanding of the death penalty is broken.

an unborn child is a logical non sequiter

the death penalty is nothing but an 'easy way out' for criminals who've done awful things

Are you retarded?

Define child, if we are going to play this game

To be fair that's an arbitrary language delineation and topics like murder are pretty inherently emotional

exactly!

so nothing means anything?

no

i'm questioning the motive of using specific words to 'guide' the emotional debate

murder is unjustly killing a person. Therefore, abortion without medical cause is murder!

I am not using words for emotional impact, you are misreading my intentions

Also, you making this impersonal isn't helping

the problem is if you were to just outright ban abortion it would just make the practise illegal and start a black market. Also it goes against the principle of conservatism that is to stop the government intervening into the personal lives of people.

Murder is a massive violation. it IS personal!

also they already tried that in other nations

no

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_orphans

the problem is abortion is murder

they banned abortion, the pill, condoms etc and it hardly worked out in the long term.

So? The problem isn't the law

and in countries that banned abortion this is what happens instead:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsafe_abortion

and the risk of both the baby and mother dying is increased

which is two lives 🤔

so you support potentially killing twice as many people 🤔

People believe that before a certain point in pregnancy, the child is "not human" or "not living" so they are under the impression that this is not murder.

"so you support potentially killing twice as many people 🤔" No, not once have I said that

I never will

but if you support banning abortion

then it could end up in a scenario

that potentially kills twice as many people

Nope

yes