gtg

Hasta luego

does anyone other than @ZODD use voice chat?

Am I not good enough for you anymore 🤡

@Silveru I'm going to try and do some roundtable discussions during the call in shows through discord so that might boost the participation in the voice chats as the server gets bigger

you're good enough @ZODD haha just curious how active the voice chat gets

@Seven Of Swords congratulations for the strawman fallacy, you just reiterated the communist mantra. the social cohesion of a society has nothing to to with capitalism and free market. stating that those who are incapable are stolen from and pushed to poverty, by the elite who's robbing them dry is plain false. you would cease the means of production from those capable just to reward those who are incapable. we've seen how that works out.

fuck this bot

alright, I'm gonna type it in again

@Seven Of Swords you've mistaken validation with economical success, like many others do. if everyone could and would be damn rich, I doubt they would feel validated and happy. moreover, nowadays you can get your needs easily covered even if you're a net drag on society. if you need proof, just look at the welfare system in western societies. it did more harm to black communities, than slavery and everything that's happened to them before. entitled single mothers and children raised without fathers everywhere. pbs.twimg.com/media/Cp74XmyUAAAtCaa.jpg

@igorbloodscene Pepole are waking up to the lie and tribleism will soom make a return, beause pepole don't belive in our socity.

Trible*

@igorbloodscene I don't see how a Marxian analysis of capitalism and its social and economic consequences are at all a strawman... could you perhaps expand and better explicate your argument into how and where the misrepresentation of a particular argument took place and where exactly I knocked it down just to make it look easy to refute? You also seem very concerned with why it would be the case that communists would say this by suggesting "you just reiterated the communist mantra", a if it is a pejorative. Can you please explain and come up with an argument for why it is that 1) things that communists say are pejorative and 2) why would it be that just because a communist says so that therefore it is false.

@igorbloodscene You also suggest that those who are not successful in the capitalist mode of production are incapable... perhaps this may be the case with some people, but is it that they are incapable or that they live in a society that has created spaces and specific classes that are to be made as poor thus that makes them incapable? For example, if we look at this within a Marxian analysis, there is class struggle between the bourgeoise and proletariat. In order for the proletariat to survive, they must sell their labor power to those who own the means of production, or the bourgeois. This sets up a society in which the two classes will have differing interests. The bourgeois, in order to obtain the most profits, will need to make sure that the expenditures that are spent on workers (benefits, wages, hours, etc.) all together will not exceed the expected profits that he will gain by owning the surplus that the workers have made.

@igorbloodscene In other words, in order for the bourgeois to secure their own interests, the proletariat must be exploited otherwise they would not be able to profit. Then you suggest that seizing the means of production is simply taking from the capable and giving to those that are not. Again, I've already posited the question of how it is that this supposed incapability originates. Simply throwing the "muh Venezuela" or "muh Soviet Union" memes are not a good enough attempt to say that workers seizing the means of production is bad... because guess what? As long as there are any problems within a society, it becomes questionable if any society is worth having, whether capitalist or communist. So that begs the question, why are you arguing that a capitalist society is more acceptable with all of its problems rather than a communist one? And of course the same question can be asked of people advocating for communism. And keep in mind, I've never admitted to being a communist per se, only that I find Marx's critiques of Capitalism as compelling.

@igorbloodscene Then you suggest: "you've mistaken validation with economical success, like many others do", well, under capitalism, economic success is the measure of success. Why do you think that so many reactionaries advocate for people to study what allows them to accumulate the most capital for a capitalist rather than what may truly interest them? Because success is crafted as a little box that is only accepted by how useful a person can be to gain money for someone else. That is a hallmark of capitalism. To quote Blade Runner 2049, "When your'e not performing your duties, do they keep you in a little box? Cells".

@igorbloodscene As for welfare, who is a societal leach, and so on, those are all discourses taking place within the framework of using the state as an authoritative and violent end to secure a political/economic interest. I think that the state is garbage, so no matter who argues for what policies should take place, they will not be what I would advocate for because the state itself is simply a problem that cannot solve the issues brought about the economic system that the state itself is dependent upon. We must consider radically new social institutions or get rid of them entirely to deal with our problems. If that means people abandon the state, then so be it. If that means that people abandon capitalism, then cool. If that means that the only way is to make sure that no one can breed any more because our own biology is the reason why we have social problems, then so be it.

All or nothing.

@igorbloodscene Perhaps this discussion is best had in voice chat. Walls of texts are annoying to write and very time consuming. I would very much like to read or listen to a response.

looking for mgtow

Looking for enlightment

"When you see the Buddha on the side of the road, kill him"

Who the hell said that?

Lol

Its just an aphorism lol

Stars in the Milky Way: ~100 Billion

Amount of debt that the US has : 21~23 Trillion Dollars

What the hell is going on here?

Why is the country in more debt than there are stars in the galaxy several times over?

Welfare and bad decisions

Really? You think its all welfare?

And bad decisions?

What if the economic and social system only creates spaces for people to make decisions that cannot solve the problems created by the system in the first place?

No matter how much health care, welfare or however many political policies are instituted by a state?

dude, really? do I have to read that wall of text? I have shit to get done. I'll get back to you... eventually, sometime.

I'm afk for a reason

Y'all posting essays xD

@igorbloodscene Noted. Which is why a discussion in voice chat would be better.

But if not, then I understand.

btw if you say communism and marxism isn't bad, prove me with one working example of a communist country in economical terms

(hint: venezuela is a fine proof of why communism doesn't work, if you need an example from the present)