people call themselves liberals in one breath and then babble on about restricting and punishing all sorts of "hate" speech. they're not actual liberal

the right has absorbed a lot of that word confusion

classical liberals, for instance, are ok people and can rationally discuss their views. they don't start screaming FASCIST when their reasoning is challenged. Dave Rubin is an example of an intelligent liberal who will gladly debate his beliefs and rationally support them

i see no reason not to consider these people liberals

> "nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism" that's retarded

I think he merely means that nationalism betrays partiotism by taking it too far.

here is the full quote

“Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism: nationalism is a betrayal of patriotism,” Macron said in a 20-minute address delivered from under the Arc de Triomphe to mark the 100th anniversary of the end of World War One.

"Patriotism is the exact opposite of nationalism"?

Yeah, that ... that IS retarded.

that's why i'd give him a pass if something was lost in translation but no one ever tried to correct it from his side

I understand that Nationalism can go too far, when it goes extreme, it can power fascism.

or course, any idea that inspires people to action can taken too far can be bad

Does he maybe not understand the definition of the word? It also doesn't help that the word 'nationalist' has become so coupled with 'nazis'.

There's stupid and then there's... this

>exact opposite
That's the key part

Which led me to question whether or not he even understands what the word means...

I don't think there are many words in the dictionary that are too much closer in meaning, without being equal

Not the same words by any means, there are key differences

But very similar

Macron is saying something akin to "the sky is never blue"

I suppose if someone wants to be specific about it, a "nationalist" can be categorized as someone who believes their nation is superior to all other nations and a "patriot" is someone who is willing to protect/defend their nation from intruders and harm.

But that's a stretch

A nationalist is someone who thinks having a nation is better than not having one

Supremacy of one nation over the other is national supremacism or something like that

Yea, which is why I said it was a stretch if he's going for that definition

But oh well, nothing new from the play book I suppose from a avowed leftist. Redefining words to whatever suits them

A nationalist doesn't have to feel he cares about his country because it's has anything superior to another country.

i can be 'patriotic' about my State but just because of how things generally are in it.

Yeah it's totally possible to be patriotic without being nationalistic, sure. If Macron made that point it would be fine, although I wouldn't know why that would be an important thing to say.

often, lefties try to tie the ideas of nazis and eugenics with nationalism

that's muddles things

yep, hence why we should keep pushing the fact that Hitler was left-wing

And the idea that fascism is generally left/center

hitler wasn't nationalist so much as he was an Imperialist. Trump is a nationalist and has no desire to go around conquering other countries

Yep

It was called the Third Reich, not the Third Nation

And he conquered, he didn't protect

i don't see how nationalist and imperialist are mutually exclusive categories

also his foreign policy was largely based around taking back german territory

The point is the narrative of nationalism = evil

By demonstrating that Hitler wasn't even nationalist in the first place, it becomes easier to defeat the less informed crowd