@Myndrian yes, objectively

Historically

I agree with you guys but it seems that certain unrealistic memes such as afterlife or god punishing us can amplify these mechanisms of zeal or guilt or whatever. So any secular ideology is gonna have a difficult time rousing people. And not many other ideologies besides religions qualify probably as a “group evolutionary strategy”

@TMatthews why would you expend the definition of religion to include things like white guilt, when the point of the question is to determine if religion, as defined traditionally, is more of a motivational zealous force than other things, such as white gim

I was just thinking about how at certain times it is probably appropriate to use rhetoric approaching religious zeal within a secular context. Zealots can be powerful. Idk

@Myndrian You're right, secular ideology doesn't motivate the same way. When you're genuinely afraid of suffering eternal fire, that's a pretty big motivator.

“Is religion more motivational than blank” “well if we consider blank a religion too then...”

Ya thanks APO216 totally agree

So to rouse people from a deep slumber of apathy one can kind of use rhetoric like using ancestors as a type of god figure

Or archetype and talk about they are betraying their ancestors

And then I don’t know where to borrow the same amount of zeal from say like Judaism and Islam two very zealous group evolutionary strategies

The idea of white people ever seeing their ancestry in a religiousesque level *before* winning, is nonsensical. It can be propogandized once in control, but it’s not going to work as a strategy *to* win

White Identity most likely will have to piggy back on a proxy to gain momentum

I think focusing on the physical dangers individuals face from multiracialism and forced diversity is a more effective way to awaken people than focusing on the spiritual aspect just yet. We're more inclined to turn non-religious people away by prioritizing the latter.

@Myndrian That may be true, but it only works on people who share the same religion or religious history. I don't think many Buddhists would be motivated by hellfire for instance. Only Christians or people with a Christian upbringing would be swayed by that. It's a strategy for the in-group.

I think the spiritual aspect is important when addressing the Jewish predicament

If you aren’t playing on a spiritual level when you’re fighting against the tribe you’re fighting from a weaker foundation

Also. I think many secular leftists have a repurposed version of Christian belief that has its own Good v Evil, Saints, commandments, sins, etc.

The left is literally evil. Notch gets it

They already speak in a zealous manner, just with their own secular political beliefs.

@⚡Clark⚡ the left and right dichotomy is the easy to read version of the actual political battle for normies. I really do see it as evil vs good, with varying levels in between

@⚡Clark⚡ makes a good point

And that is mainly my point

Not that I’m spiritual

Mainly atheist/agnostic but I used to be mormon and realize my zeal was never higher than when I thought myself to be completely chosen by god

So that is my point. But there are definitely flaws in such a worldview I’m sure

I’m just kind of rambling but wanted to hear all your thoughts. I guess my main point is how does a secular ideology compete with religious like zeal? Cause in aspect I think generally they lose, but I don’t know much concerning history besides the Mormons definitely did concede to the US out west

Obviously a big secular group has tamed many religious groups

Sadly some people out there aren't able to discern between religiosity and spirituality. It's getting better though

The secular and even often anti-religiousity of the asian communist movements were quite zealous..

Definitely true. Do you think it’s cause communism is like crazy idealism? Aiming for this Utopia/pie in the sky/ heaven on earth?

So essentially heaven in a lot of ways

It’s probably difficult to delineate ideological/religious Utopianism, for the purposes of the strength of conviction

Heaven on earth = 100,000,000 deaths

It’s very important to distinguish “a desire for improvement” from “a desire for perfection.” The latter leads to some dark places when perfection never comes.

Especially when you try to establish heaven on earth top-bottom style ya

I'm chanting "WE WANT WALLS!"

I’m dying and going to heaven type belief is harmless ahah

@ophiuchus Also consider the desire for individual improvement versus societal improvement makes a difference.

Is saying "congratulations" an appropriate answer when you find out an acquaintance is jewish?

I didn't know what else to say