> He grew a pretty loyal following, 75 million now almost.
@Adam135 I contend that not all of them are blind followers. Not by a long shot.

I.e he words his stuff more ... Dunno the right words for it, professionally? Neutral?

Reserved?

> I.e he words his stuff more ... Dunno the right words for it, professionally? Neutral?
@realz That's might not be mere coincidence. It goes a long way. Some people know that.

Barnes is giving qanon too much credit as being not as crazy as it really is

They don't seem blind, they seem pretty moderately informed and have extreme skepticism for the media

as they should

I've heard him bash qanon many times quite sufficiently heh

Lol that doesn't leave every claim as reality until proven otherwise @Adam135

I almost never take any one at face value any more, I research everything

My point is, if faced with the same decision again in 2024 as they were in 2020, it's likely they will vote the same way

Yeah he is live-streaming right now and kinda hedging and saying thing like the left conspiracy theories are much worse.

Left conspiracy theories used to be like antivaxx stuff and gmos are bad. But now I see that incorporated into qanon quite heavily @realz

Mmm

Well I don't feel the need to defend qanon heh

What exactly is qanon saying these days?

Well, if the left conspiracy theories are worse, then any other is necessarily true. Science

Yeah but it’s interesting because the beginning of the hangout was viva and Barnes complaining how they got a lot of qanon hate but they still have to frame it a way the the left is much worse conspiracy wise. Which I’m not too sure about @realz

Me neither

I think that we are almost to the point of having a system in place that will ensure free and fair elections. I think that having voting machines with paper ballot backup is the right approach and more secure than paper ballots only. They provide a check/balance on each other. With paper only, people will claim that someone replaced votes in the background. Electronic only can potentially be hacked with not way of knowing what actually occurred. If we add the ability for people to log in and check that their recorded ballot matched what they intended. And add the ability to issue a Voter Photo ID at the time of registration to people who don't have photo ID and/or enable 2-factor authentication for voter identification. It will close all remaining known vulnerabilities.

You (royal you) have to learn not to hold anyone to a pedestal standard, and "eat the meat spit out the bones"; I disagree with Barnes often and I still appreciate his vast knowledge and his insights

who is Barnes

and just as importantly, having partisan poll watchers.

I only put legal eagle on a pedestal @realz

(I’m kidding)

Yeah I agree. Only the random sampling audit scheme would close some more holds.

Sure... but I think that those other safeguards might reduce the need for them.

That's what bothers me about Good Robert, I find him too reasonable and I can't find myself disagreeing with anything he says

I am a fan of Risk Limiting Audits, too.

> My point is, if faced with the same decision again in 2024 as they were in 2020, it's likely they will vote the same way
@Adam135 Probably most will vote that way again but it doesn't make them all fanatics of the sort which we may see from time to time.

In Canada, nothing is done electronically, nor do we have absentee ballots. Everything is done by hand with 3 scrutineers watching each poll worker count and tabulate the votes.

Robert Barnes a self identifying "big wig" right wing political lawyer who has vast knowledge on constitutional law politics

You can find him interviewed on various channels but most often on Viva Frei

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzGiDDKdphJ0GFvEd82WfYQ

You Canadians are way more trusting than us Americans...

Can I lighten the mood a little bit from all this arguing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQz9Vi3jVcs Come back from watching this refreshed and ready to debate again

Good Robert (Gruler) has recommended Barnes a couple times I think

He's not a blind trumpean though

quite the opposite actually, it's done out of fear that anything electronic can be tampered or altered and well justified. That's why 3 volunteers watch every poll worker count the votes. If you ever have any vital documentation you don't want anyone to access remotely, the last place you would store it is on your hard drive.

If you get mad when someone doesn't think Dominion is anything bad, then you might rage quit

I don't think Dominion is bad, I just think it's cheap hardware

and doesn't offer much in the way of security