It's not insanely expensive. A pro IT guy can image each machine in less than 20 min tops

Reviewing signatures on absentee ballots and returning to normal rejection rates alone would be enough to over turn this election in the contested states.

I feel like you're making a good faith attempt but my whole point was to eventually hope that you would realize that maybe you expect an unrealistic standard for what evidence would be needed? if you cannot even describe what your evidence would potentially look like....

What do they need to do with the election machines that's going to make the results clear?

I’m fine with saying it can go in the pile of evidence but doesn’t graduate to valid or useful evidence @JonasRobert If I made up a story and signed a affidavit that is technically evidence

Forget the machines.

That's a red herring

Yes it is. Expensive, time consuming. And experts IT folks can disagree. Team Trump could find one to say he sees fraud. Team Biden could find one to say that IT guy is an idiot. It is RIDICULOUS to go down that path because Trump is butt hurt.

@JonasRobert building a case worn a bunch of useable , valid and irrefutable evidence is how you move the needle. So far everything that has been presented does not reach that level of evidence

just try to remember that people literally go to prison for life based on witness testimony, I think in this case because the stakes are so high, people have unrealistic standards of evidence, thats all

LOL see

all evidence is refutable unless you have someone on tape

Not on this kind of evidence @JonasRobert

and a recording of someone committing the crime is not needed for many many convictions

But what he is not telling you is that these eye witness affidavits have been reviewed by judge after judge and they don't even meet the MUCH MUCH lower bar of a preponderance of the evidence.

@JD~Jordan you spent half of this convo not even understanding what the issue over sharpies is LOL. @james j and I have a disagreement but hes not being a jerk about it

To say there is "evidence" is really pointless here. You are playing a game of semantics, @JonasRobert . I absolutely agree that affidavits are technically evidence. But the might NOT be evidence of the claims in the lawsuits... which is exactly what the courts have been saying

@JonasRobert we are not dealing with evidence that rises to the level of useable or verifiable. Many people have gone to jail of off false eye witness testimony and many times these people get exonerated after it turns out there was conflicting evidence/proof or the person lied

Judges already have a bias against ruling on elections. They'll use any excuse to avoid it. Reminder. Bush lost every law suit until the supreme court.

Ohhh... I see so the Trump appointed judges are biased against him... LOL yeah ok

what is your evidence of that?

agree totally.

Bush had a few hundred votes in one state to win and a simple concise issue to rule over

well i agree totally with the 2nd part. i personally feel the evidence we have is verifiable and useable, but I understand someone not agreeing with that as well

This is NOTHING like Bush Gore...

@JonasRobert also it’s not on me to prove this wild accusation of wide spread voter fraud. The neutral position is that the election was no different then an other election. Also with the current evidence what do you think is the strongest

These voting machines approved for use by officials who dont actually have their IT test for absolute security is only one part of many irregularities. Officials are not doing their jobs that they committed to do.

Is that irregular or common in all elections @TW20

What is absolute security 😅

That's for 2020 and past elections.

So it’s more of a regularity than a irregularity as far as elections go? @TW20

@JonasRobert I am not asking you to take my word for anything. We have court records now. We have rulings of judges that make it clear the "evidence" is crap.

Lots of people confuse evidence and proof. And I don't think you are... I think you understand the difference. But just because there are affidavits does not mean that evidence goes to prove the claim.

If I give an affidavit that I went to polling place X and I was treated poorly and I felt abused and I am just as sure as I can possible be that they threw my vote away or somehow changed it - it is technically evidence. It however is NOT evidence that would go to prove my allegation of fraud.

I wasn't lying in my affidavit. All of it happen. And I may truly believe my vote didnt get counted. But nothing in that affidavit goes to PROVE my allegation.

And this is what the courts are telling us. Just read the opinion. They are online. The complaints are online, the affidavits are there, the responses are online and the judges rulings are there.

Don't believe me... that is fine. You don't know me. But why dare you refusing to believe these judges who have weighed the evidence and found it severely lacking... why not believe them?

Disagree. Show we were they are not doing their jobs. So far I think we pulled off a stellar election

Like mentioned, the election process checks have slowly gone casual, downhill.

Ok but why tho?

Or maybe they have gotten stronger, it’s possible this election was more secure than last years on a whole @TW20

@james j thats good a thing i support

paper ballots to audit results are a pretty good election check

I’m neutral on it just seems random

I also agree, the null hypothesis has to be that the election was fair. I think there are 2 broad categories of evidence. One is technical rule violations that took place. Like SOS changing election rules, poll watchers being kept at a distance, etc. I think there is a good argument to be made that these votes should be excluded regardless of any other evidence. On the issue of ***actual fraud***, I think the strongest evidence is simply the statistical anomalies combined with the irregular observations we saw. As one example, in GA they say they are going to stop counting ballots because a pipe burst. But it turns out there is no record of a repair person coming to fix the pipe. There is a text message describing the pipe burst as a "big over exaggeration"...then shortly after these abrupt pause of reporting ballot counts, suddenly Biden mounts a massive come back that defies all other trends we see around the country. Not to mention, we see similar occurrences in a handful of cities...an abrupt and unexplained pause, followed by a massive Biden surge. The places we observe this were only in the handful of places critical for Biden to win.

I could accept explaining away one or two such anomalies