Message from @james j
Discord ID: 783572256135708702
@JD~Jordan @james j what we have now is SOME evidence, statistical evidence and witness testimony. I think it's perfectly fair for you to say that's not enough. I'm just curious what would be enough? Also @JD~Jordan you did not give any example you just kept asking for me to give you evidence lol. if you dont wanna participate thats fine, ill leave it to @james j or anyone else
If they're not afraid to release the machines for investigation, they shouldn't have anything to hide.
CBS clearly states this is untrue
We don’t have anything close to evidence @JonasRobert we have unverifiable stories from a mob of public poll watchers . They got these affidavits from a website online and the judge threw most of them out becaus it was mostly spam and things you can’t prove happened or didn’t happened. As far as these hearings go it’s not much different. The only data driven thing they have going for them is easily disputed. This is just a show perpetuated and egged on by trump. He had been priming his followers that the election would be rigged for months, now they just see fraud everywhere.
Here's what I would have liked MI was closer but AZ and GA were weird. Trump legal team sit down with witnesses ahead of time to sort out proper testimony from confused poll watchers. Bring in election worker and voting machine expert to answer questions to testimony can be compared to proper procedures instead of guessing. Specific measurable examples of fraud being done. Vulnerabilities are fine to fix in the future but there has to be real fraud there.
You are missing the point. We can't just start turning election machines over to anyone that wants to check them out because they didnt like the results. We need you to justify that insanely expensive and massive an undertaking.
okay, i will accept what you're saying as true. but my question still stands - what WOULD be evidence, in your mind?
@JonasRobert I already answered that did I not?
im sry maybe I missed it, will you plz copy/paste?
"something they present that can’t be refuted. I don’t know what evidence for wide spread voter fraud would be." this is what I saw you post
@JonasRobert something they present that can’t be refuted. I don’t know what evidence for wide spread voter fraud would be. They are they ones claiming they have the evidence for it . The dominion machine thing would be a start but so far all of it is extremely conspiratorial and out there.
If they want to say 10000 Trump votes were dropped outline how it was done and show the 10000
@Dedkraken, you just advanced to level 16!
Yes something that can’t be refuted , have enough of that then you have something @JonasRobert
@james j, @JonasRobert is just trying to muck about. He/She is falling back on the logic that a single affidavit is technically evidence. And its true it is. But it does not mean that "evidence" is reliable or substancial enough to support the underlying claims. And Court after court, Judge after judge has told us that the "evidence" is NOT reliable, extremely speculative and in many cases even if true would not establish fraud.
It's not insanely expensive. A pro IT guy can image each machine in less than 20 min tops
Reviewing signatures on absentee ballots and returning to normal rejection rates alone would be enough to over turn this election in the contested states.
I feel like you're making a good faith attempt but my whole point was to eventually hope that you would realize that maybe you expect an unrealistic standard for what evidence would be needed? if you cannot even describe what your evidence would potentially look like....
What do they need to do with the election machines that's going to make the results clear?
I’m fine with saying it can go in the pile of evidence but doesn’t graduate to valid or useful evidence @JonasRobert If I made up a story and signed a affidavit that is technically evidence
Forget the machines.
That's a red herring
Yes it is. Expensive, time consuming. And experts IT folks can disagree. Team Trump could find one to say he sees fraud. Team Biden could find one to say that IT guy is an idiot. It is RIDICULOUS to go down that path because Trump is butt hurt.
@JonasRobert building a case worn a bunch of useable , valid and irrefutable evidence is how you move the needle. So far everything that has been presented does not reach that level of evidence
just try to remember that people literally go to prison for life based on witness testimony, I think in this case because the stakes are so high, people have unrealistic standards of evidence, thats all
LOL see
all evidence is refutable unless you have someone on tape
Not on this kind of evidence @JonasRobert
and a recording of someone committing the crime is not needed for many many convictions
But what he is not telling you is that these eye witness affidavits have been reviewed by judge after judge and they don't even meet the MUCH MUCH lower bar of a preponderance of the evidence.
@JD~Jordan you spent half of this convo not even understanding what the issue over sharpies is LOL. @james j and I have a disagreement but hes not being a jerk about it
To say there is "evidence" is really pointless here. You are playing a game of semantics, @JonasRobert . I absolutely agree that affidavits are technically evidence. But the might NOT be evidence of the claims in the lawsuits... which is exactly what the courts have been saying
@JonasRobert we are not dealing with evidence that rises to the level of useable or verifiable. Many people have gone to jail of off false eye witness testimony and many times these people get exonerated after it turns out there was conflicting evidence/proof or the person lied
Judges already have a bias against ruling on elections. They'll use any excuse to avoid it. Reminder. Bush lost every law suit until the supreme court.
Ohhh... I see so the Trump appointed judges are biased against him... LOL yeah ok
what is your evidence of that?
agree totally.
Bush had a few hundred votes in one state to win and a simple concise issue to rule over
well i agree totally with the 2nd part. i personally feel the evidence we have is verifiable and useable, but I understand someone not agreeing with that as well
This is NOTHING like Bush Gore...