so to continue to support people with your money by force is not Altruism

But you can't always _just_ be selfless, because then, you don't ever focus on yourself. And thus, you're in a worse position to sacrifice and help.

you arne't doing it because you choose to, you are doing it now because you are being forced to

Heres a new perspective for you

How is being a ball and chain to someone else an act of self-sacrifice?

in other words, how is being the beneficiary of an altruist person making you selfless? if anything it makes you selfish, for using another persons sacrifice

I do not choose to have my tax money go to welfare

they force that upon me

I would choose to have my taxes go to schools and healthcare

I think you are misunderstanding me here: as an Objectivist, I consider rationally pursuing values, i.e. selfishness to be a virtue.

not to support a family of 8 who refuse to work

It seems to be the difference between indifference and duty.
Indifference is a passive state, whereas duty is an active one, since the other definition is "a task or action that someone is required to perform."
Is that the same thing as a lack of motivation?

read this please: https://www.working-minds.com/galtmini.htm

that's why I said, ther eis a difference between helping and having that person rely on you to survive

I mean, in the end, you can't ever completely separate independance from all humans. Many have tried. All have failed in the end. It always goes south.

Robots don't make very good citizens

there is a distinct difference

Just ask communism

I'm not trying to make robots

but you are trying to imply that peopel are selfish for wanting to perpetuate the success of the human race

yes, because they are!

because they don't want peopel relying on them and they want to teach them to do thing for themselves

that makes no sense!

^

no they aren't at all

do you value the human race?

why would giving someone freedom over their own life be selfish?

if that were the case, cavemen would have died out a long time ago, had the man who invented fire never shared it

selfishness is about value

if you value something, you are selfish for pursuing it.

if he was the only one that knew how to do it, and he died, then the rest of them would have too because they didn't know how to do it

I value the human race's continued existence. Because I know that if my life doesn't leave some kind of something behind positive, I'll know that I've lived a nigh pointless existence. Doesn't mean I can't do anything for myself. It just means that I _want_ to sacrifice for the good of humankind.

no, because it benefits him to have other people know how to do it, because then his children will have fire.

I _want_ to do this.

I was never taught that.

to give a person the chance to get off the dole and make something of themselves is not selfish in the slightest

yes, i value my childrens ability to not be a slave to another persons whims, boy am i a selfish bastard 😛

I weighed the world, and formulated opinions accordingly.

want is the most selfish of emotions.

The equation obviously isn't that simple in my eyes, others can value you and thus suicide is not at all altruistic

ehhh...

I would argue lust is the most selfish emotion

Not all selfishness is inherently bad all the time