Apparently acid is up, too.

I'm sure they're aware that they need individual rights.

uh

might want to specify

Well, yeah, that's not being argued.

I don't even know what you're getting at

If a mass of individuals have the same rights, and are in the same country, that's collective rights

Yeah, I'm not sure what's even being argued here. Does the government go out and personally tell one person at a time what rights they have? If they all have the same rights, that's collective rights

I still don't understand

wew

This debate has suddenly shifted right above my head.

I think I'm gonna get back to my games

>when sheep are docile and hopelessly dependant

The umbilical cord is palpable.

I don't fancy becoming selfish or short-sighted. Or dependant on a rug that can be pulled out from underneath of me.

Self-imposed duty and enforced-upon duty are two different things.

Different people work with different moral rules.

I'd rather be able to stand on my own two feet, and decide for myself what's worth sacrificing for.

Blanket-statement.

If that's selfish by someone's strange, arbitrary definition, I don't really care all that much. I'd much rather help people out because I want to, not because I have to. And I _do_ want to help people.

But you can't always _just_ be selfless, because then, you don't ever focus on yourself. And thus, you're in a worse position to sacrifice and help.

I mean, in the end, you can't ever completely separate independance from all humans. Many have tried. All have failed in the end. It always goes south.

Robots don't make very good citizens

Just ask communism

^

I value the human race's continued existence. Because I know that if my life doesn't leave some kind of something behind positive, I'll know that I've lived a nigh pointless existence. Doesn't mean I can't do anything for myself. It just means that I _want_ to sacrifice for the good of humankind.

I _want_ to do this.

I was never taught that.

I weighed the world, and formulated opinions accordingly.

Not all selfishness is inherently bad all the time

It depends on the situation.

I'd say voluntary and self-aware sacrifice for the good of others, and truly _wanting_ to do it, isn't even remotely selfish.

Can't I do both?

Nah, I disagree with you.

It's selfish on one front, selfless on another.

Just because there's a "negative", that doesn't somehow negate the positive.

Different people lead different lives. I want to live a life I personally deem worth living in _my_ case. I wasn't swayed by some ideology, or some random guy spewing nationalistic propoganda. I weighed the world, and deemed myself to be the few, and the others, the many.

This doesn't exactly fit into a government type, though

Bad stuff happens there

"virtue signalling" and "wanting to help for the sake of helping" can mingle together as one. I absolutely refuse to only ever think of myself. I do think about myself, of course. But that's not the only thing I think about.

I just don't prescribe to this idea that not being selfish is selfish.

No, dependant is not the word

Personally interested

A better title for that.

A blanket-statement with little basis in reality.

Welfare is a fucked and abused system, for sure.

I'm going to have to say that I've seen nothing so far to convince me. Just because it makes sense to you, that doesn't somehow mean that it _has_ to make sense for someone else.

I'm objective, yeah. I'm just objective about the human race. I deem it to be more important than the one of me.

And I'm completely comfortable with that.

In reality, if the Earth was to suddenly blow up, the universe would move on.

I'm just being objective and realistic on a smaller scale that I can influence

I am human. I am part of the human race. More humans matter than one human. If given an ultimatum where one human has to die, or all have to die, and I have ten seconds to decide, I choose the rest of the humans to live.

Not that it would be an easy choice

And I'd hate it. But I'd realize that the human race was so much more important than that one human.

Individual lives _are_ important.

But not at the cost of others.

Of the majority of others.

Well, one is more important than the other.

^

And I never said that you said that.

So I guess impasse.

>my mind thinks something, therefore it is

"I can read your mind, and know without making any investigations."

But anyway, this really is just a cycle of "my opinion", then "your opinion." I have no idea what logical conclusions you've come to to decide what you've decided, but I'll probably leave you to it here pretty soon.

Oh yeah, if I had to be sacrificed, then fuck yeah

Sign me up

If the alternative is everyone else

"My rationale"

"My"

"Accept my opinion as I dress it up as irrefutable fact!"

"You don't see it as fact? But I cannot fathom!"

Basically, what I was trying to get at is this: if I have to sacrifice for the good of humanity, sign me up. I don't even care if I'm being leeched off of, it's a purposeful leeching I fully consent to. And if the situation were to ever arise, I would never, in a _million years_ think of only myself. I'd be apprehensive as all hell, but I wouldn't _not_ sacrifice.

I'm giving a part of myself to something I believe in.

And that's the part absolutely no one could ever take away from me.

In any concievable situation.

The part of me _wanting_ to make changes for the betterment of my kind.

"One of us suffers, so all of us must suffer"

It sounds a lot like naivety.

>>

I make the choice. And in the end, no one's going to take that choice away from me if the need ever arises.

I'm going to have to direct you to the same quote.

I feel like you _want_ there not to be tough choices like that, and a bigger picture to consider. If someone wants to live for themselves, they can go right on ahead. Otherwise, the sacrifice and other sacrifices will have been for nothing.

Again, it goes back to this. People need to become more independant, and be able to stand on their own two feet.

er

I'm pretty sure that was argued for earlier.

I'm going to have to completely disagree with you there. It's a fucked and doomed-to-fail system if everyone only ever thinks of themselves

The world is already feeling that effect. People just waltz on by homeless people all the time. Little to no empathy.

Keyword

"Most"

The human race will devolve quite a lot if everyone only ever thought of themselves. We'd devolve into a savage and awful race if literally everyone took to their own devices, and were so short-sighted as to think that only their goals and interests mattered, because they're them, not other people.

Just look at the human race today

Loooots of selfishness

Oh lookey, warlords in Africa

Oh hey, Adolf, how do you do?

Mighty fine day out, isn't it, Stalin?

I'm saying that if you only ever think of yourself, you're selfish

By literal definition

🎵 One of these things is not like the other!~ 🎵

People can live selfishly if they want to. But when they go about, trying to tell me to be selfish, I have a problem.

^

Something looked past a lot when condemning "Nazis"