Discord ID: 290212741871042561

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the NHS is powered on the people's will

like, it may well be running on fumes... but it's running at all because everyone who uses it or works for it believes in having a national health service

so I don't see it ever going "bust", just getting butchered by cuts

I get the impression there's always more money to be had for the NHS, it's jut they're being constrained because they're using their funding inappropriately. I've heard things about them expanding middle management, and cutting nurses/therapists, and I've heard things about plans to keep GPs open 7 days a week by outsourcing to private companies who will cost us more in the long term... then there was the whole issue with Spine, intended to stop the NHS from running on paper, but ended up being run by some private company who did the job wrong and cost the NHS billions

I think it's good that they're investing in NHS Digital, and launching Spine 2... I can really see it paying off in the long run (as long as it's done correctly)

but they're huge projects... so the NHS is gonna be strapped for cash in the meantime

well let's assume that we get spine 2 up and running and we're able to streamline data processing... presuming data governance rules allow it, think about the potential for large-scale scientific studies. it would be unparalleled. and it's only possible because the NHS is one company with unilateral control over its own data, rather than a bunch of private companies with closely guarded data gathered from small-scale studies

well consider what harm it can do. it would be like facebook, but where the data benefits all of mankind rather than turns a profit

and you give the data in exchange for free healthcare

so is it theft?

you also consent

data governance rules for healthcare data are the most stringent rules around

this is such a one-track line of thinking that I can only assume you're memeing. presuming you're not, I don't think I could convince you either way, so I'll bow out

memeing confirmed ๐Ÿ˜›

cadavers can't consent

prove me wrong

you mean there's a *social contract*

and so the individual *cannot come first*


so the collective wants to imprison you for what they decided was a crime, and you disagree and do not consent

and it doesn't violate your rights

try to live outside of society

and see if it doesn't constitute an offence

try to - say - take possession of property. what if the collective don't consent? you have no property

otherwise what you do in taking property is an offence against an individual, or society

you have no rights unless the collective *allow* you to have those rights

the social contract is imposed upon you

what I'm saying is that not living in a collective is not an option

you can be as opposed as you like, your rights are contingent upon the consent of the collective

in whatever type of society

ok, so let's say you have a libertarian society where it's determined everyone gets their own slice of land except you, and everyone agrees to the way it's divided up (except you, obviously)

where do you go?

you have nowhere to go *to*

you can try and take some land for yourself

but then that's an offence agains the collective, or an idividual

how do you justify an offence against an individual?

so you're suggesting the collective would organise society in such a way that the individual comes first...

...then there is no collective

or there is no individual

it's a paradox

the collective is still determining the right sof the individual in this situation

it's not a contract you can bow out of

that feels like you'tre changing the goalposts somewhat. my point was that you have no choice but to live in a collective

you can have degrees of individualism/collectivism

yeah a society isn't a tangible object, either

"A society can be reduced to the level of cooperating (or not cooperating in the case of socialist societies) individuals."

so if a group of cooperating individuals choose to suspend the rights of a non-cooperating individual...? ๐Ÿค”

maybe your IQ is too high for you to realise my original point still stands that you have no choice but to live in a collective

and can maybe renegotiate the terms of your social contract, but the contract is imposed upon you

how do you distribute land such that everyone has the opportunity to own a home

you can't have indefinite property ownership

you can't own land as a corpse

you have a right to 50 years burial in the UK

you pay council tax for a right to stay on your land

you pay capital gains tax

understanding there are limits at which point putting your rights before those of everyone else becomes a problem is just being realistic

understanding there are hierarchies of rights is being realistic

although that wasn't the original point now, was it

you said:
"People consent to the legal structure at the start"
"Uh yeah obviously the collective oppressed people. That's why I'm against all forms of collectivism, including socialism and socialized healthcare"
"Not in a libertarian society where everyone consents to the law (for children implied consent until they can make their own choices) if you don't consent you can leave"
and my point has been, and will remain to be:
"you don't get a choice"

I suppose it might work if the gun lovers were right in thinking that every american just needs a weapon to become solid snake. In reality, there are people trained with firearms who are expected to carry them for their job, and are still scared of having to use them.

probably. so I guess we just require security and police to have at least one shootout before being offered a permanent position.

and now we can add teachers to that list, I guess

>not zero
we need a more final solution I feel

how does that come up in conversation? did he turn up in a MAGA hat?


well for a kid, I guess they all are

lots of people seem to be forgetting they're just kids

so a) they shouldn't be speaking, and b) of course they're cringey, wtf did anyone expect?

must be pretty fucking difficult to not be self aware enough to understand why the internet is memeing the hell out of you

well right, the platform is bad for them, and it's bad for the gun control guys. you can't use kids as props, it doesn't work. weak move.

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