before it gets made

@IVAN CHESNOKOV Possibly

That's how it's been before

Well that same thing happens now except with the market @Timo)))

So far what has worked best is the anarchist method

If people dont want things they wont make it

Well now you can go to a capitalist who will finance your product, is that still a thing in socialism?

for example: titoism in the balkans, maosim in mainland china, etcetc

Socialism removes the capitalist class.

So I'm fucked then if I'm in a workplace of people who don't want to listen to my ideas?

Youre fucked now if your boss doesnt listen to your ideas

Not really, venture capitalism is a thing

We dont think worker ownership is the perfect model, we view it to be better than the current state

Being able to work and save money and then go for my product I can do now

Can't do that with vouchers right?

Revolutionary Anarchism has no foreseeable end. Revisionist bourgeois tendencies threaten continuously.

Vouchers shouldnt even really be compared to money since they exist only to ration resources and distribute value according to value that was already produced.

They are destroyed upon purchase

right, so then I can never make my new product without convincing the people in my workplace?

Can you give me a scenario?

I need to visualize this

sure give me a sec

Let's say hybrid cars

Or electric cars

The old guard would not want it, they want to stick to diesel

My idea gets shut down all the time

How do I go further?

Labour aristocracy. This is why this makes me nervous.

So

If youve already explained the ins and outs of the idea at the general meeting but people arent really warming up to the idea then its probably just not something that people want. You could also go to a local communal meeting and give the idea there I suppose. This might be a bit saddening but its not like you would lose your position in the workplace

The people never had a say in if my product was a good idea, only the people in the workplace

Maybe I have a niche market

Well assuming we have abolished market exchange that really wouldnt matter. If the place you work at has the tools to make the car then you could make one for yourself.

Making an electric car by myself is not realistic tbh

Not without having the money (or time whatever) for research and development first

Right

But its just like capitalism, if people dont want it then it wont get made

It is worse. Profit does not always align with progress.

But with capitalism you only have to convince some rich guy or crowdfund on the internet

Not a guarantee for success but more options for sure

Yeah but you still theoretically have to fill a market demand right?

Demand is not rational, either.

Right, but many people often don't know what they want until they see it

Ford said that if he gave the people what they wanted he'd invent a faster horse.

Generally its the opposite of that

Rightlibs hate monopolies

government intervention creates monopolies too

Well yeah but they dont believe that happens

Look who lobbies for a higher minimum wage

It's not the small businesses

Anyway, after the revolution against state, I am going after the syndicates. Night lads.

pls dont hurt my syndicates

@Timo))) anybody gets to be an inventor

Right, so if 5 million people want to create a new smartphone, how would that go?

And what would be the cost of failing to make a good product?

@Timo))) anybody can work on a product.

Cost is not important.

only people's creativity matters.

Creating things people evolve.

People matter.

Product don't.

Best product is people.

Smartphones are trash. They come and go.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a good smartphone. I wonder if it is an oxymoron

It would be worse if you never saw a good man.

it would, but I'm not sure how much that has to do with eachother

Smartphones are useful.

But not important.

Right but you'd have to give people who want to make a new smartphone the tools to make them

who's MLKP?

You'd then send out 5 million peoples worth of stuff to them?

@Timo))) sent out? Are they not free to take it?

From where?

Straight from a factory?

From anywhere.

From factories too.

Is there a limit to what they can take?

@Sampuka Turkish

@Timo))) There is always a limit.

So there could be a case where you could say no, there are too many people designing smartphones right now

@Timo))) Do you need parts to design smartphone?

If you want to test it yes

<:dynoSuccess:314691591484866560> ***Shapeshifting Child Molester#6221 has been warned.***

Does everyone get to test their products or does someone decide which are worthy of it?

@Timo))) can't you test a public property you fool?

I don't understand that sentence

Is there a necessity to possess privately a part of the phone to test it?

Well if you're the one making it yes you should at least have the means to make the product

What happens after you succeed and ''sell'' it is another thing

@Timo))) you have to have it? It can't be public?

How do you publicly make your own idea of a smartphone?

Doesn't sound like what you sold it, as everyone can be an inventor

@Timo))) same way you do it privately

Not really, making it privately means I get to make what I design as I thought of it

How would you do it publicly?

Like internet was made publicly and like PC was made

Phones are no different

Internet made publicly?

Thought that was the government

@Timo))) It was designed as a military USA program