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2018-05-27 23:56:06 UTC

2018-05-27 23:57:22 UTC

2018-05-27 23:57:32 UTC

2018-05-28 00:00:54 UTC

2018-05-28 01:28:47 UTC

2018-05-28 01:34:04 UTC

2018-05-28 01:36:24 UTC

2018-05-28 01:38:55 UTC

2018-05-28 01:49:15 UTC

2018-05-28 15:07:18 UTC

2018-05-28 15:07:23 UTC
2018-05-28 15:07:39 UTC

I literally quoted that though.

2018-05-28 15:07:48 UTC

```Marxism is anti-property, true socialism is not.```

2018-05-28 15:07:57 UTC

So can you respond to what I pointed out about it please?

2018-05-28 15:08:08 UTC

```I'm assuming this is the same notion you're using? If so, when has socialism ever been in favour of private property? How dumb do you have to be to not realise that Hitler's "socialism" is just antisemitic capitalism?```

2018-05-28 15:08:52 UTC

Socialism is in favor of private property because it benefits the worker and citizen of the nation.

2018-05-28 15:08:58 UTC


2018-05-28 15:09:13 UTC

The literal definition of socialism is that property is taken into the hands of the community.

2018-05-28 15:09:23 UTC

And based purely on economic reasons, his policies are called Volksegemeinschaft.

2018-05-28 15:09:25 UTC

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.```

2018-05-28 15:09:40 UTC

Prussian Socialism my dude

2018-05-28 15:09:55 UTC

It isn't really Socialism, though, is it

2018-05-28 15:10:16 UTC

Even most Hitlerites I've spoken to have recognized that it isn't Socialist

2018-05-28 15:10:18 UTC

Hail the Kaiser

2018-05-28 15:10:58 UTC

Itโ€™s not Marxist Socialism yes.

2018-05-28 15:11:21 UTC

Hitler had his definition to encourage actual socialists to follow his ideology instead and attend their meetings. It isnโ€™t *actual* socialism, they just used the term to help convert socialists.

2018-05-28 15:13:09 UTC

Marxism is a materialist framework which justifies the movement from capitalism to socialism to communism with dialectics. Strasserism is both socialist and anti-dialectical materialism. Ergo, wanting working class ownership of the means of production is not inherently Marxist, and Strasserism itself is anti-Marxist.

2018-05-28 15:14:03 UTC

So there's not much point in calling yourself a socialist while rejecting socialist policies, and then calling actual existing socialism "marxist".

2018-05-28 15:14:59 UTC

Stop being a dumb Hitlerite tbh

2018-05-28 15:18:19 UTC

I wouldnโ€™t say he rejected all socialist policies though. He did do a lot of pro-German worker things. Establishing national labor unions, paid vacations for both blue and white collar workers, etc. The workers had more say in the work place. Also, the end goal of Marxism is a stateless, classless, currencyless society through worker ownership of the means of production.

2018-05-28 15:18:33 UTC

Marxism is Socialism, Hitlerite National Socialism is not Marxist Socialism.

2018-05-28 15:18:55 UTC

Strasserism is just a form of Marxist Socialism without the autistic dialectic.

2018-05-28 15:19:02 UTC

Those policies are merely policies of Social Democracy, not socialism.

2018-05-28 15:19:34 UTC

Yes, Marxism's end goal is a stateless, moneyless, classless society, so what? How is that relevant to standard socialism? That's just communism.

2018-05-28 15:20:08 UTC

Strasserism is Marxist Socialism without the Marxist bit :^)

2018-05-28 15:21:34 UTC

Socialism is watered down communism and merely a transition. Strasserism is just Marxist Socialism without Marxist overtones. Itโ€™s still very left wing socialist and focuses only on the material as does Marxism.

2018-05-28 15:21:44 UTC

What even

2018-05-28 15:21:52 UTC

How does Socialism differ from Communism actually?

2018-05-28 15:22:14 UTC

Socialism is workers owning the means of production. Communism is a stateless, moneyless, classless society.

2018-05-28 15:22:19 UTC

I thought we established this already.

2018-05-28 15:23:06 UTC

And itโ€™s only achieved through workers owning the means of production.

2018-05-28 15:23:10 UTC

Socialism is only labelled a transition stage under Marxism. But not all Socialism is Marxist, ergo, Socialists who want to keep a Socialist state without reaching Communism are non-marxist.

2018-05-28 15:23:11 UTC

So whatโ€™s the difference?

2018-05-28 15:23:14 UTC


2018-05-28 15:23:15 UTC


2018-05-28 15:23:37 UTC

Its achieved through that, yes. So what? I literally just explained the differences in the systems.

2018-05-28 15:23:42 UTC

```Socialism is workers owning the means of production. Communism is a stateless, moneyless, classless society.```

2018-05-28 15:24:14 UTC

Yes, like I agreed, communism is achieved through socialism. But not all socialism is communist, ergo not all socialists are marxists.

2018-05-28 15:24:22 UTC

Both are achieved through workers owning the means of production.

2018-05-28 15:24:34 UTC

I agree with that, not all socialists are marxists.

2018-05-28 15:24:35 UTC

Both are socialist, yes?

2018-05-28 15:24:40 UTC

So what?

2018-05-28 15:24:54 UTC

They're both a form of socialism. It doesn't make them the same thing you nut.

2018-05-28 15:25:21 UTC

Was the Soviet Union a truly socialist country?

2018-05-28 15:25:33 UTC

Depends what year.

2018-05-28 15:25:37 UTC

I was between c.1929-1956

2018-05-28 15:25:37 UTC

Under Stalin, yes.

2018-05-28 15:25:41 UTC


2018-05-28 15:26:04 UTC

Before Khrushchev's liberalisation and after Lenin's death, basically.

2018-05-28 15:26:27 UTC

I'd say after the end of the NEP

2018-05-28 15:26:43 UTC

And before Khrushchev's destalinization

2018-05-28 15:27:52 UTC

Yeah, but this guy probably doesn't know anything about the USSR outside of propaganda, so I'm using dates which are easy for this brainlet to understand.

2018-05-28 15:27:59 UTC

Oh ok

2018-05-28 15:28:26 UTC

Then I'll pick 1917, because politically that was the start year of socialism

2018-05-28 15:28:38 UTC


2018-05-28 15:28:51 UTC

So under Stalin it was real socialism?

2018-05-28 15:28:55 UTC


2018-05-28 15:28:55 UTC


2018-05-28 15:29:20 UTC

Are you going to follow that up with anything or are you just going to ask if the USSR was socialist again?

2018-05-28 15:29:47 UTC

No I just find it interesting how Iโ€™ve run in to many Communists/Socialists who would disagree.

2018-05-28 15:29:53 UTC


2018-05-28 15:30:06 UTC

Unless youโ€™re both tankies or something

2018-05-28 15:30:07 UTC

A lot of leftcoms and anarchists tend to call Stalin a pseudo-Socialist.

2018-05-28 15:30:15 UTC

I'm not a Marxist, so I'm hardly a tankie.

2018-05-28 15:30:33 UTC

I'm a strasserite, if that wasn't already established.

2018-05-28 15:30:41 UTC

I often get called a tankie

2018-05-28 15:30:48 UTC

Same, surprisingly.

2018-05-28 15:30:58 UTC

@Advocatus Diaboli Well, youโ€™re a communist obviously?

2018-05-28 15:31:08 UTC

Though I don't even know the meaning of this word

2018-05-28 15:31:12 UTC

Yes I am

2018-05-28 15:31:25 UTC

What kind? Marxist-Leninist? Maoist? Trotskyist?

2018-05-28 15:31:40 UTC

Hi there

2018-05-28 15:31:48 UTC

A "tankie" is generally someone who "sympathises" will Stalin. It comes from when the USSR sent tanks into Hungary in 1956, I believe.

2018-05-28 15:31:51 UTC

Workers Paradise same as you

2018-05-28 15:31:58 UTC

I'm Stalinist

2018-05-28 15:32:03 UTC

So ML, then.

2018-05-28 15:32:10 UTC


2018-05-28 15:32:40 UTC

Do you believe Stalinism to be true communism? According to Marxโ€™s words anyways?

2018-05-28 15:32:41 UTC

I just say 'Stalinist' because that's shorter than saying 'Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist'

2018-05-28 15:33:00 UTC

But the latter is what I believe is Stalinism

2018-05-28 15:33:14 UTC

By true communism I mean end goal of the ideology.

2018-05-28 15:33:14 UTC

You have to remember that the Marxist-Leninist (Stalinist) state was designed to be a transition state between Socialism and Communism, so it can't be called "true communism".

2018-05-28 15:33:38 UTC

According to all Marxist theory, a strong transition state is needed.

2018-05-28 15:33:43 UTC


2018-05-28 15:33:52 UTC

"True communism" is impossible in a country as large as the U.S.S.R. lol.

2018-05-28 15:34:01 UTC


2018-05-28 15:34:10 UTC

Communism is generally accepted to require global control first.

2018-05-28 15:34:17 UTC

^ again

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