@Fuju

I literally quoted that though.

```Marxism is anti-property, true socialism is not.```

So can you respond to what I pointed out about it please?

This:
```I'm assuming this is the same notion you're using? If so, when has socialism ever been in favour of private property? How dumb do you have to be to not realise that Hitler's "socialism" is just antisemitic capitalism?```

Socialism is in favor of private property because it benefits the worker and citizen of the nation.

What

The literal definition of socialism is that property is taken into the hands of the community.

And based purely on economic reasons, his policies are called Volksegemeinschaft.

```
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.```

Prussian Socialism my dude

It isn't really Socialism, though, is it

Even most Hitlerites I've spoken to have recognized that it isn't Socialist

Hail the Kaiser

It’s not Marxist Socialism yes.

Hitler had his definition to encourage actual socialists to follow his ideology instead and attend their meetings. It isn’t *actual* socialism, they just used the term to help convert socialists.

Marxism is a materialist framework which justifies the movement from capitalism to socialism to communism with dialectics. Strasserism is both socialist and anti-dialectical materialism. Ergo, wanting working class ownership of the means of production is not inherently Marxist, and Strasserism itself is anti-Marxist.

So there's not much point in calling yourself a socialist while rejecting socialist policies, and then calling actual existing socialism "marxist".

Stop being a dumb Hitlerite tbh

I wouldn’t say he rejected all socialist policies though. He did do a lot of pro-German worker things. Establishing national labor unions, paid vacations for both blue and white collar workers, etc. The workers had more say in the work place. Also, the end goal of Marxism is a stateless, classless, currencyless society through worker ownership of the means of production.

Marxism is Socialism, Hitlerite National Socialism is not Marxist Socialism.

Strasserism is just a form of Marxist Socialism without the autistic dialectic.

Those policies are merely policies of Social Democracy, not socialism.

Yes, Marxism's end goal is a stateless, moneyless, classless society, so what? How is that relevant to standard socialism? That's just communism.

Strasserism is Marxist Socialism without the Marxist bit :^)

Socialism is watered down communism and merely a transition. Strasserism is just Marxist Socialism without Marxist overtones. It’s still very left wing socialist and focuses only on the material as does Marxism.

What even

How does Socialism differ from Communism actually?

Socialism is workers owning the means of production. Communism is a stateless, moneyless, classless society.

I thought we established this already.

And it’s only achieved through workers owning the means of production.

Socialism is only labelled a transition stage under Marxism. But not all Socialism is Marxist, ergo, Socialists who want to keep a Socialist state without reaching Communism are non-marxist.

So what’s the difference?

WHAT

ARE YOU THICK

Its achieved through that, yes. So what? I literally just explained the differences in the systems.

```Socialism is workers owning the means of production. Communism is a stateless, moneyless, classless society.```

Yes, like I agreed, communism is achieved through socialism. But not all socialism is communist, ergo not all socialists are marxists.

Both are achieved through workers owning the means of production.

I agree with that, not all socialists are marxists.

Both are socialist, yes?

So what?

They're both a form of socialism. It doesn't make them the same thing you nut.

Was the Soviet Union a truly socialist country?

Depends what year.

I was between c.1929-1956

Under Stalin, yes.

It*

Before Khrushchev's liberalisation and after Lenin's death, basically.

I'd say after the end of the NEP

And before Khrushchev's destalinization

Yeah, but this guy probably doesn't know anything about the USSR outside of propaganda, so I'm using dates which are easy for this brainlet to understand.

Oh ok

Then I'll pick 1917, because politically that was the start year of socialism

Fair.

So under Stalin it was real socialism?

Yes.

Yes

Are you going to follow that up with anything or are you just going to ask if the USSR was socialist again?

No I just find it interesting how I’ve run in to many Communists/Socialists who would disagree.

Yeah.

Unless you’re both tankies or something

A lot of leftcoms and anarchists tend to call Stalin a pseudo-Socialist.

I'm not a Marxist, so I'm hardly a tankie.

I'm a strasserite, if that wasn't already established.

I often get called a tankie

Same, surprisingly.

@Advocatus Diaboli Well, you’re a communist obviously?

Though I don't even know the meaning of this word

Yes I am

What kind? Marxist-Leninist? Maoist? Trotskyist?

advocatus

you in any communist or leftist servers?

Hi there

A "tankie" is generally someone who "sympathises" will Stalin. It comes from when the USSR sent tanks into Hungary in 1956, I believe.

Workers Paradise same as you

I'm Stalinist

So ML, then.

Yeah

Do you believe Stalinism to be true communism? According to Marx’s words anyways?

I just say 'Stalinist' because that's shorter than saying 'Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist'

But the latter is what I believe is Stalinism

By true communism I mean end goal of the ideology.

You have to remember that the Marxist-Leninist (Stalinist) state was designed to be a transition state between Socialism and Communism, so it can't be called "true communism".

According to all Marxist theory, a strong transition state is needed.

^

"True communism" is impossible in a country as large as the U.S.S.R. lol.

Wat

Communism is generally accepted to require global control first.

^ again