Has any of you successfully changed the outlook of a leftist

I want to try

And I need info if it is possible and how

I moved my sister to center left

I'm convinced I could repeat the process given time

With a non relative

Ok

How did you do it

Did you hit her with facts over and over again?

Start off with the obviously ridiculous examples at the extreme end of what prominent voices are actually saying, play devil's advocate for a moderate right wing position

Openly devils advocate mind

I'd say the most important thing to do is first figure out whether they're discussing things in good faith with you or not. If you want to change people's minds you typically need to be understanding of their views and empathetic. But that will just get you taken advantage of by the typical far left talking points

Like "well they probably think this"

That too yeah, they have to be willing to listen

A lot don't

They just shut you up

Or just shout

If it's a public conversation with someone like that then it's probably impossible especially with their friends coming to back them up, but you can at least give them enough rope to hang themselves and maybe convince any spectators that they might not be in the right

But yeah, just constantly telling someone "you're wrong" is almost never going to work regardless of how many facts you have to back it up. People dig their heels into the ground and double down when someone acts like that since they don't care about who's right so much as 'winning' the discussion and probably more importantly not letting you 'win'

I would say it needs to be private conversations with people you already have some sort of relationship with

I shifted a friend on Antifa

Wow

That is impressive

By explaining that they define shit so broadly that it puts me in danger

And others like me

Do speeches ever work

Like

Fact presentations

That happen to touch the topic

"I have a dream" shit doesn't work, and raw statistics isn't ideal

Make it all personal and localized

"This is how this could affect you or someone like you"

If they don't agree and aren't actually interested in understanding your view that's just going to bore and annoy them

Present your ideas from an empathetic standpoint

The left wing narrative right now is all about targeted empathy. Divert the course of the river

I don't think there's any one real answer to this question. But deeply understanding their views and how to properly explain your own is probably the most important thing to it.

Lile making class speeches about class shit that happens to touch a topic. Just drop a kernel of truth there. And there. And just kinda show them all the facts with credited science sources they can check by themselves.

Can such a scheme work

I am in Cali I remind you

It is hard to maka just a speech with a 180 opinion

Most of the far left regressivism sounds like it makes sense and is morally right on first viewing and that makes it a very awkward sort of thing to counter

Yeah don't do public attempts

Nobody wants to be publicly humiliated, so they'll fight you harder

I actually was kinda supportive of the left like 2 years ago when I was 13. But I looked into that shit and just realized how dumb it was

Convince individuals, and keep them in mind when you try to convince them

I flipped from moderate left to ancap when I was 15 or 16, then slowly ramped back to libertarian

Can such things happen to others and can I influence that happening and not have a direct convo about it

And that was prior to a lot of the sj nonsenae

Nonsense*

I would say you could try bringing it up in class once you know the lay of the land and have made some progress

There's a lot of dumb shit on both sides. Sadly it seems like most of the active and vocal left is currently the one spouting the dumbest shit. I still consider myself pretty solidly left leaning in my thinking despite how much disdain I have for the modern left itself.

I am a Libertarian

You've got a lot more work to do then lol

That is the right I think in this political hellhole

And left are dipshits

Basically

Not exactly Authoritarian

Bit dipshits

I would try to eliminate that kind of thinking

If you want to convince people

I think most people here are pretty heavily libertarian in their values, though I don't think there are than many that identify with the current Libertarian party

I find most people are big govt when it suits them

Though I'm also in leafland, so that may have something to do with it

Even anarchists call the police sometimes

But I suspect the lefty states are like that too

Law enforcement isn't big government, but it is funny seeing that happen yes

Not all libertarians are opposed to big govt. Like look at how big of an idol Thomas Paine is to libertarians, yet he supported UBI and many types of UBS out of his libertarian values

But I'd say it's more a case of most people are hypocrites when it suits them

UBI isn't necessarily "Big Govt"

Like I believe in free speech(including all kinds of "hate speech'), guns, and true gender and racial equality. By normal terms I am a 100% liberal. But by US terms I am against all that "liberals" stand for

I think you can like some aspects of someone's ideology without taking in the whole thing

I'm not sure I can actually say he supported such a thing

If you find a gold bar in a trash can you just take the gold bar. And not the whole thing

Most political terminology seems to be entirely relative to whoever you ask's ideology.

UBI is directly redistributive. Id say that goes against libertarian values. That doesnt mean all welfare systems are fucked forever though

Welfare is ok imo

Leaf here, can confirm that my country is autistic. I've met SJW types who are calling for a centralised government to control the lives of everyone. Please McNuke us

A bit socialist I dare say

But it helps

Socialism does not have any sort of monopoly on social programs. They've existed far longer than the idea of Socialism has.

I mean

Yes

Yeah

Sharing is caring

Like I am a 100% liberal in scientific terms

But I am not

How

I think government should only intervene where the market is not doing a better job

Socialists are very quick to using ideas like health care as a trojan horse for their ideology, and those opposed to welfare are quick to use Socialism's horrors to discredit them, but they are entirely separate from each other.

So like, I don't expect a market solution for mental health care, or orphans

I like the idea of everyone pitching in to help the less fortunate.

I dont like the idea of being taxed into oblivion so that junkies and reforming terrorists can have a house thrice the size of mine

^

Yes

But I would expect one for health care more generally

Beemann, how about this: orphans as therapy pets

Kek

Lmao

General health care is hell

Like

I am from Ukraine

I loved that anecdote about the cat lady who stopped caring about her cat when she had a baby

The 27 year old country

Most shelters won't adopt out Black Cats around halloween for fear of people sacrificing them

What

Would orphanages not allow adoptions of gingers?

The NHS is good *and* bad, it's convenient but quality is low

I actually think that satanism with animal sacrifices should be registered as an official religion

I once had a doctor tell me he wouldn't give me advice on contraception as an off-the-cuff question because my appointment was for tonsillitis and I needed to book another appointment

And have churches and shit

It is in the US, though I don't know about the sacrifices

Another time I waited an hour and a half to get told my blood test results were fine

I have a question

Shoot

So

In Ukraine if you came to a hospital sick af you would get put in line for like an hour on a busy day mins

What if you are sick af 100f temp and you go to a hospital in US

Do they give you a fucking appointment as they always do

They'll treat people according to who is most urgent

So not a week but 3 days

Well outside of maybe some rural areas I can't imagine there are many people in the US who live in a place where anyone couldn't get an appointment for something like that within 3 days

You just might have to find a different doctor from your usual if he's fully booked

Ok den

I have to go tbh

Need tob sleep

Gotta wake up at 6:30 and I love my sleep schedule

Have a good night man

In Canuckistan we've had people die on waiting lists

Including babies with easily treatable shit

You guys having good days?

Oof, that's horrible

One guy for saved by Murrican healthcare+travel insurance because he couldn't be sent back to an Ontario hospital

They were all full

Our hospitals often run well over capacity. 120-150%

The fuck

woo

People make fun of canadians as having good healthcare

But I also heard shit like waiting lists.

Most socialists I listen say canadians are good because everyone is "covered"

my Canadian best friend's girlfriend had to wait for months to see a doctor just to be told that her chronic pain wasn't real and then she went right back onto a waiting list

anyone here lives in a rural town?

what a random question

I live in a somewhat rural town

@Deleted User

hmm

can i ask you something totally random? lol

how fast is your internet?

anyone here comfy in bed delaying the inevitible arrival of morning?

and if so how fast is your internet?

I'm on my home PC and my internet is slow as balls, although I'm far from the router and I think a cable's broke, so

@Deleted User My internet is not good, not bad.

about 700kps down, 60kps up

I was for a bit. Internet was plenty fast: 60down/30up. I was put on a shared business plan by the apartment complex.

That's MBps. It's well into Broadband.

The only time I've had faster Internet was the one time I was on a university connection and they had gigabit and metered out "small" portions for people to use on that connection. That easily hit the hundreds of Mbs.

The business plan was semi-rural. The Uni was urban.

hmm

Why do you ask?

iw ould have imagine by 2020 everybody would have at least 100/100 connection

Maybe

The thing is, what would you use it for?

To sum up how spiky my internet is, just did a connection test and apparently I'm 90kps down, 5mbs up. My internet speed changed *as I was taking a connection test.* Yyyyyyup.

I wish I had better speeds

mostly better up speeds

because I'm regularly uploading multiple gigabyte server backups

which takes hours and hours

I'm not going to ask why you'd be doing that. Except to say, where are you doing server backups to?

all that furry porn

@pratel I keep offsite backups of my server

as well as a lot of my personal files

Yeah, I should be doing offsite backups but I don't know of a good place to do it.

Which is why I'm asking.

when a kangeroo's baby gets stolen, is that pickpocketing or kidnapping?

I don't trust Google and am kinda skeptical of paying alot of money.

Use MEGA.nz

It's encrypted by your keys

@>Cytos, de lieve goede synth kidnapping. You go with the strongest charge in court.

But yeah, don't ever trust Google with your files

It'd be theft because animals are counted as property though, right?

Like, kidnapping would imply we're treating the kangaroo as human

I suppose if nobody owns the kangaroo it's a different question

man, im thinkin in setting up a ssh server and see if i can tunnel in with my phone

''free phone internet''

SHH (sftp when talking about file management) is a good transport strategy, but you've got to think about the destination as well

@Termer Totally agree. I'm trying to de-google. Would de-microsoft, but good luck with that.

Was actually looking into Spideroak. Mega.nz looks cheaper though.

@Vigil i dont have any context as to what youre referring to, kidnapping an animal would be poaching.

I've not used a Google or Microsoft product in about a year, other than youtube, which I automatically download my subscriptions via a script through Tor @pratel

mega also supports kim dot com, who's politics and activism you may or may not appreciate

only if you pay

I like Kim Dotcom, seems like a decent guy

Isnt kim the guy from megaupload

yes

And he makes rap songs or something

@Termer How did you get around Windows OS? Or are you using some kind of FOSS OS?

man mega has survived all this time

I remember seeing the interview he did with Tim

@pratel I use Ubuntu

A linux distro

I've become skeptical of Ubuntu lately.

They've been doing stuff.

?

Endless is really cool

I'll switch to Debian when Canonical goes rogue

But it doesn't have too many applications

are we talking about ''they again?

I've kicked around using Arch. But then I remember all the stuff I really need Windows for.

I've not used a windows application in a long time, since most of my software is available on linux and I don't play games

No idea who "they" is supposed to be. I was referring to Canonical.

I don't like Canonical, but Ubuntu is nice

they silicon valley demons

Making weird partnerships, doing unusual programs and including lots of strange additions to their UI that could be used for monitoring.

The only reason I use Ubuntu over plain debian is because of the Ubuntu universe

ubuntu is nice

I've used ubuntu and still have it installed. Mostly because it's easy.

But I've been thinking of transitioning off.

I'm still stuck on Windows by any means.

Office, mostly.

Then some gaming.

And no, LibreOffice is not a good substitute.

oh

you stopped me in my tracks

how come?

You can use office as a web app.

It's like MS Office but it crashes if someone sends you any moderately complicated office file.

It also is like Office was back in 2008.

I like it, it gets the job done.

And it doesn't work as well for more advanced MS Office work.

Huh. I don't use any advanced office features, so I guess I wouldn't know.

That tends to be the thing.

What a shame

Most people don't really use that much of Office. But when you learn the more powerful stuff, you can't really leave.

Particularly if other people are using them with you.

I don't use it often

School and a few other things

I use it for spreadsheets rather frequently, but for text I usually just use gedit or nano

and yes, I did say I use nano on the desktop. fight me

"gedit or nano"

I don't know you anymore.

Whatever works

I use Google slides, docs, and sheetz

vim master race.

nah

vim is inconvenient to use

That way, I can edit my shit on any computer or on my phone

*big brother is watching*

Without needing to carry a usb around

*very closely, citizen*

I only own one computer, so I don't have any need cloud svcs

Google isn't that bad yet tbh

It is though

it's been infiltrated by the NSA for a long time