K, here guys

@stoneytoney @JunoBlade

What about the Dead Sea Scrolls, they weren't even discovered until the 1950s or so. Meaning that just because they haven't been discovered doesn't mean they never existed.

The dead sea scrolls were also found in a pace uniquely favorable to the survival of such records...

IF records of those events had existed, they certainly did not by the time of Jesus's death

That's like before 1492 saying North America NEVER existed because it was never discovered.

Suddenly North America always existed since it was then discovered

So you're saying there's no way new records could be discovered ?

They're actually books named after the people who wrote them, Matthew Mark Luke John

The disciples that were actually with Jesus at the time he was walking the earth

Think about it... let's take for example the flood and Noah's Ark... let's just put aside, for a minute, the improbability of getting ALL of those animals and humans on a boat the size quoted in the Bible. Do you REALLY think ANY record of that event would have survived that cataclysm??

Just a few years ago they uncovered something new in Jerusalem that they're saying could've been where Jesus was.

Yes I do

Right, you're right. What if the evidence of the ark never survived? How then can you prove it's just a story and never existed ?

It took more than 500 years for them to find King Richard III.... you REALLY think we would EVER find the ACTUAL remains of Jesus??

Of course we wouldn't find a remains of Jesus, that didn't even find them three days later when they searched the grave

I never said that the ark never existed. I said any written records from that time likely could not have

and the improbability of the ark story REALLY lends doubt to the stroy itself

He was never actually interred Toony...

But then how can you say that those events aren't factual, and only allegory ?

Do you REALLY think the Romans would have given him or allowed such an honor??

You know whom could've allowed it over any humans, right ?

God can make anything happen, people can't forget that.

We so limit God in what He has the power to do

Yes I believe they would have

Because the events described in that book are fantastical to the point of fiction... we KNOW how some things work in this world... like writing, weathering, etc...

AND... the book was written WAY after the events

According to scholars and scientists

The book was not written way after the events, they were written during

NO story survives exact and intact through word of mouth telling...

No... there is absolutely NO text of a bible from that time

They were not written on the paper that we used today

Yes there is

So again, if we discover texts in the future, then you would be wrong, lol ?

No... they would have been something like papyrus... but papyrus is still subject to the ravages of time

NOTHING is immune to that

God is immune to that

You're discounting the Bible as allegory based on that ALL evidence would already be gathered

But papyrus and other materials are not

If God wanted to make something exist that long, it will exist that long

I never once said I discounted the bible

You said those stories are mere allegory

Not factual.

Sounds like discounting...

I am actually a person of deep faith... but my faith IS tempered by what we know of science. God did not give us intelligence so we could just be blind sheep

Yeah that's why we have to question what the so-called scientists are saying

even the Vatican has scientific teams doing geology, astronomy, astrophysics, etc...

But he also didn't set in stone that everything that science shows us is 100% prrof of anything

I AM a scientist toony

I don't trust the Vatican, and I don't trust the pope

Carbon dating is proof... the speed of light is proof, etc..

The Vatican literally has a telescope that's named Lucifer

I mean, we're discovering things in quantum physics and mechanics that are beginning to question Einstein's theory of relativity, which was seen as fact for a long time

I don't trust the pope... but I do trust the SCIENTISTS at the Vatican. I also trust the scientists at numerous colleges and universities all over the world

Nothing we have discovered so far breaks any of einstein's laws...

Just because scientists make a discovery, it doesn't mean it's 100% fact and will never be challenged

the ONLY thing we have found so far that breaks any of those laws is the BB itself...

That's the thing about science, it always follows the money, never the facts

Of course science is challenged. otherwise it's not science. But there are things is science that are hard and immutable facts... things such as the speed of light, speed of sound, carbon decay, etc

Einstein became famous for a whole bunch of theories that he couldn't improve

Sorry I'm doing talk to text 😅

Still, according to the scientists. ANY science can be flawed.

You think these college scientists get MONEY?? lmao... you have never been in a university science dept then

Oh my gosh! I'm sorry I have missed out on this conversation! This is my kind of discussion!!! Love it!

Those things that are hard and fast facts like I mentioned about can not be flawed...

No that's when they get used by the professors who earn the money

GamersForTrump, you wanna get caught up first ?

We can hold a pause in the chat

LOL... you think university professors get money and get rish off of this??

Again, you have never been in a University science dept

Don't need to be to see the corruption

It's dangerous to label an entire profession as corrupt

I believe it's more dangerous to believe a whole entire profession just because they call themselves scientists

Okay, then maybe not. Can we take a pause ?

My father was an astronomer and astrophysicist... he had Ph. Ds in both

Yeah I could take a pause, my b

Creation is still learning about itself. Science, knowledge, facts are evolving as creation does.

I would take exception to anyone calling him, or anyone he worked with, corrupt

I also have degrees in 2 types of science fields...

@GamersForTrump We also spoke about this in general chat if you wanna get caught up there.

I would take exception to being called corrupt as well

@JunoBlade Could you pause just for a little bit while Gamers gets caught up, lol ?

I know quite a lot of people that work in and research in science departments at universities... not a single one of them is corrupt

and they are ALL in it for the love of their field

Intellect always wants to be king. The greatest and ascended masters who have walked this planet had knowing beyond the intellect.

It's Obvious, toony, that you don't KNOW any of the scientists who work in these places.

Can I interject something ?

I'd like to show a short clip from a movie. Yeah it's just a movie but he makes a point that is so true.

Go for it!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2ppyMUlXfM

It sums up this whole discussion in a minute lol

And those changes in perspective were driven by SCIENCE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_the_universe

But you sound like all of these things are factual even though you admit that science can change

if anyone needs any explanation of the technical stuff in that wikpedia page let me know

Meaning that things of fact will always be fact

I said that SOME things in science are FACT... I cited them above

we use those things we KNOW to be true to figure out other things

What if those things end up being updated from future science

We KNOW how fast light travels... and we can use that to estimate distances