Message from @Enryse
Discord ID: 650897464492032000
yeah, but how do you know that the soul exists?
The same way you know God exists
I can't exist in the material without it
@Enryse so can we as human beings know things which we cannot prove scientifical? If yes, then metaphysics is a useful field of philosophy.
The question of the existence of God is a metaphysical question, of course
The Greek philosophers pondered these same questions long before any influence from the Abrahamic religion
but, i don't see why you wouldn't exits without god, if god wasn't created, what makes you thing that the first living creature was?
Because creature means something that is created
And how could you know something you cannot perceive? (I mean, yes, someone could tell you, and you could believe by faith, but that can apply to everything)
ok what about "living beings"?
Because not all knowledge comes from the senses
Yes, the Greek's pondered the same question, and many conclude that they cannot know
I know, math and logic comes for default
And the self existence knowledge
Right, and thus our epistemology is not dependent on our perceptions alone
yeah, but how does god is part of that default knowledge?
following the previous argument...
If there can be an unmoved mover, there is no reason to thing there cannot be others
Not by itself, no
Also, infinity its impossible to know, because we could never know if something that appears infinite is actually infinite
Well, logic and maths in general are infinite, the abstract world is infinite, so we know that the infinite is logically provable, just as a god is logically provable
I wouldn't say it's all default knowledge. A child might understand 2+2 = 4 but pi is a complete mystery to them. The point being that they need to grow and expand their knowledge and understanding of mathematics.
yeah, but they could find pi with just rezoning
Right, but it isn't innate
empirical science comes from studying the world around us, formal science comes from pure reasoning
you don't born with the tools to know history or physics, but you born with the tools to know maths
let a human in a room isolated from the world and the only science he could develop to the maximum state are formal science
And metaphysics is a formal science like mathematics
Ah, le logical empiricism
May I ask what works of the Vienna circle have you read?
The question of the existence of God is a metaphysical one because there is not necessarily any empirical proof
but metaphysics, from what i know, are not axioms like maths and logic, there are different beliefs towards metaphysics, but not with maths and logic
works of the Vienna circle?
Logical empiricism is a collective definition set by the works of many authors who were memebers of a group called the Vienna circle
you are right, maybe there is no empirical way to prove it, but if you want to make it irrefutable, then it has to be proved in the abstract like maths
Still?
Maths don’t even support each other
Nothing has to be proved you entitled nit
Ever heard of Gödels incompleteness theorems?
some logical paradox?