@Osteos no theyre just projecting a different type of energy

one thats more unsettling

but you get used to it after awhile

@Diadact i dont know

There's also the answer in between, that demons and such don't exist but to unlock the part if your brain that can effect physical things, you have to kind of *believe* that you are having outside help.

The human mind is a strange thing

You could definitely prove on at least some level the existence of outside forces affecting reality. Let's say you make a pact for luck or whatever, you could then very easily objectively prove whether you're beating the odds consistently, in a way that isn't explainable by anything else. Go flip a coin a couple thousand times, if they all land on heads something is clearly going on

That never happens, of course, but the process is there

@Diadact so wait youre saying you have to have an open mind for spirits to affect you n shit?

in my exp thats not always the case

True. Yet sometimes these things do elude the very mechanisms of empiricism itself in some ways.

@PugThug how could it not always be the case

@PugThug no no, I'm saying that maybe there is no definite answer to if there are demons or not, and our mind is capable of doing fantastic things, and to break this sort of "limiter" we have naturally placed on ourselves, no doubt for the sake of sanity, you can pray, or preform a ritual, or meditate

@kore_khthonia there are claimed effects that are less quantifiable sure, but there are always things that can be done to provide proof, one way or another

@Diadact yea man, u r one smart cookie, thats a cool anaylsis

I think the design of rituals produces a phsychological effect on people, which can produce the feelings @PugThug describes

@Osteos spirits can fuck with you even if you dont believe in them

I'm of the opinion that there are other entities at play, but I find the debate of if it's completely a human invention or not

*fascinating

its worse for people who dont believe because they arent protected

The act of going through a summoning, making a blood sacrifice, gathering weird shit, all that contributes to a mental state that causes the effects people describe

ie w charms n 💩 like that

but you understand osteos argument, right bot?

he's saying by you saying that

Wearing charms protects you because you *believe* it will protect you

If you don't believe it will, then it won't

"people are worse off because they aren't protected" would fuel his argument that you just perceive it that way

I understand what he's trying to say

ah ok

It's nice that we can have discussions about stuff like this :)

idk belief is a funny thing and i have a strange relationship with it

my guide is prone to telling me not to interfere with what i dont yet understand

so i tend to overlook some things

good perspective tho

Is your guide an actual person

You said his name was Ryan

u mean like a real person or a spirit?

Like an actual dude named Ryan

I think he means like a human being name Ryan lol

Yeah

hes a human spirit named ryan

thats abt it lol