@Osteos eh prolly external

if uve summoned a demon and been in their prescence u prolly know what i mean

the energy they exude just sorta naturally causes you anxiety

Have you considered that it causes you anxiety because you give meaning to it 🤔

esp coming from the higher level ones

yea i have

but demons r powerful

Have you really 🤔

they can affect ur mental state in a lotta ways

really really

Like, for another example. You held a ritual for some diety or god or whatever, and you asked said entity to give you more confidence. And lo and behold after this ritual you have more confidence! There's two possibilies l

1. This entity actually gave you more confidence through his divine powers
2. You think this entity gave you more confidence so you start to act more confident, without any external factors

If the result was the same, does it really matter if the force was external or internal?

Why does it affect your mental state? Could it be because your thoughts and the actions you take produce a phsycological response that then causes those feelings, regardless of whether anything was actually summoned or not? 🤔

@Diadact it does, because if it's an internal process, then you get people saying that demons exist when they don't 🤔

Right, but there really is no way to absolutely prove they exist without some Hollywood shit happening like stuff being thrown around a room or whatever

Next thing you know, you've conquered the middle east and have waged seven holy wars

hold up ill answer ur question but i gotta read all that text first lol

@Osteos no theyre just projecting a different type of energy

one thats more unsettling

but you get used to it after awhile

@Diadact i dont know

There's also the answer in between, that demons and such don't exist but to unlock the part if your brain that can effect physical things, you have to kind of *believe* that you are having outside help.

The human mind is a strange thing

You could definitely prove on at least some level the existence of outside forces affecting reality. Let's say you make a pact for luck or whatever, you could then very easily objectively prove whether you're beating the odds consistently, in a way that isn't explainable by anything else. Go flip a coin a couple thousand times, if they all land on heads something is clearly going on

That never happens, of course, but the process is there

@Diadact so wait youre saying you have to have an open mind for spirits to affect you n shit?

in my exp thats not always the case

True. Yet sometimes these things do elude the very mechanisms of empiricism itself in some ways.

@PugThug how could it not always be the case

@PugThug no no, I'm saying that maybe there is no definite answer to if there are demons or not, and our mind is capable of doing fantastic things, and to break this sort of "limiter" we have naturally placed on ourselves, no doubt for the sake of sanity, you can pray, or preform a ritual, or meditate

@kore_khthonia there are claimed effects that are less quantifiable sure, but there are always things that can be done to provide proof, one way or another

@Diadact yea man, u r one smart cookie, thats a cool anaylsis

I think the design of rituals produces a phsychological effect on people, which can produce the feelings @PugThug describes

@Osteos spirits can fuck with you even if you dont believe in them

I'm of the opinion that there are other entities at play, but I find the debate of if it's completely a human invention or not

*fascinating

its worse for people who dont believe because they arent protected

The act of going through a summoning, making a blood sacrifice, gathering weird shit, all that contributes to a mental state that causes the effects people describe

ie w charms n 💩 like that

but you understand osteos argument, right bot?

he's saying by you saying that

Wearing charms protects you because you *believe* it will protect you

If you don't believe it will, then it won't