Message from @Comrade Victor

Discord ID: 564372668514828318


2019-04-07 08:31:44 UTC  

Inb4 Trotsky comes out with a letter in poorly traced handwriting on Lenin's "hurr hey guys Lenin says I'm good, no it's not faked I swear"

2019-04-07 08:32:03 UTC  

When has a Trotskyist state ever existed?

2019-04-07 08:32:03 UTC  

`Commodity production`

2019-04-07 08:32:20 UTC  

Perhaps it's such a useless ideology that it never gets any popularity

2019-04-07 08:32:50 UTC  

>when your ideology can be disassembled with 2 words yet you call Trotskyism useless

2019-04-07 08:32:58 UTC  

**Dictatorship of the proletariat**

2019-04-07 08:33:09 UTC  

Debunked in 4 words

2019-04-07 08:33:21 UTC  

Dictatorship of the proletariat does not mean bureaucracy you fucking revisionist

2019-04-07 08:33:41 UTC  

>implying tr*tsky didn't want bureaucracy

2019-04-07 08:34:10 UTC  

Honestly your revisionism of Marxism would only destroy the economy, and also return the country to the feudal stage

2019-04-07 08:34:21 UTC  

Trotsky literally refused to take the USSR in a military coup because it would be inherently bureaucratic

2019-04-07 08:34:38 UTC  

Anyway later revisionist, the true Marxist is going to plane land

2019-04-07 08:34:47 UTC  

Ok bye tr*t

2019-04-07 08:34:54 UTC  

Try not to get icepicked

2019-04-07 08:36:37 UTC  

And as for the commodity production, you can read this later

2019-04-07 08:36:40 UTC  

Socialism is a period of transition where you have some leftover relations from the capitalist mode of production co-existing with an emerging communist mode. Nobody, not even Stalin, denied that there was commodity production in the USSR and that as long as it existed it would be an obstacle to achieving communism. However, Stalin still considered the USSR distinct from a capitalist society in that:

The most important means of production were no longer produced as commodities (that is, they were not produced to be bought and sold but were instead allocated based on the needs of the workers)

The proletariat planned production through the state

There was no longer production of surplus value, in the sense that the social surplus was no longer appropriated by a class standing above the proletariat.

There can be a debate about to what extent these things were actually true. I'm of the opinion that they were true for the most part during the Stalin years, but that all of those things were eroded significantly from the mid-50's onward, culminating in the outright collapse of the USSR. But even if one wishes to make an argument that the USSR was never distinct from capitalism, i think you have to tackle the points that Stalin and others actually made. The mere existence of commodity production doesn't prove the USSR was simply capitalist.

With that said, you are right that commodity production even in socialism provides an economic basis for the return of capitalism. But Marxist-Leninists and Maoists have always believed that the goal is obviously to eliminate commodity production. In past socialist projects, the maintenance of a sphere of commodity production was considered at the time a temporarily necessary evil. In today's world, it will probably be easier to eliminate commodity production more quickly than it would have been in the 20th century.

2019-04-07 08:37:04 UTC  

"And so, in the first phase of communist society (usually called socialism) "bourgeois law" is not abolished in its entirety, but only in part, only in proportion to the economic revolution so far attained, i.e., only in respect of the means of production. "Bourgeois law" recognizes them as the private property of individuals. Socialism converts them into common property. To that extent--and to that extent alone--"bourgeois law" disappears.

In fact, when a learned professor, followed by the philistine, followed in turn by the Tseretelis and Chernovs, talks of wild utopias, of the demagogic promises of the Bolsheviks, of the impossibility of “introducing” socialism, it is the higher stage, or phase, of communism he has in mind

But the scientific distinction between socialism and communism is clear. What is usually called socialism was termed by Marx the “first”, or lower, phase of communist society. Insofar as the means of production becomes common property, the word “communism” is also applicable here, providing we do not forget that this is not complete communism"

-The State and Revolution, Lenin V.I.

2019-04-07 08:54:29 UTC  

about stalin with fashists etc

2019-04-07 08:54:36 UTC  

stalin offered treaty to british first

2019-04-07 08:54:44 UTC  

becouse of the great purge red army was in no condition to fight in any major war so stalin wanted to buy time till 1944 to rebuild the red army

2019-04-07 08:55:29 UTC  

fack trots

2019-04-07 08:55:34 UTC  

you say stalin was friend with fashists

2019-04-07 08:55:43 UTC  

trots in spain sabotaged republican spain

2019-04-07 08:55:47 UTC  

spied for japanise in china

2019-04-07 08:56:01 UTC  

colaborated with ustase and were against defence of czehoslovakia in jugoslavija <:bour:313709044957315082>,*ivan get the icepick*

2019-04-07 10:27:29 UTC  

ok

2019-04-07 11:21:15 UTC  

Also don't forget the civil war

2019-04-07 11:21:25 UTC  

That took a lot of time to rebuild the army

2019-04-07 11:21:47 UTC  

And afterwards to industrialise the country and mass produce tanks and war machines

2019-04-07 16:07:12 UTC  

Who wants to raid a Capitalist server

2019-04-07 16:16:13 UTC  

I found a cap server

2019-04-07 17:34:47 UTC  

cool

2019-04-07 20:21:58 UTC  

yo lets vc

2019-04-07 23:23:08 UTC  

@ApplicationBot Nice pfp my dude.

2019-04-08 00:53:36 UTC  

@Firefly i learnt how to use vk 😎

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308950154222895104/564613784212340766/unknown.png

2019-04-08 01:58:48 UTC  

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/308950154222895104/564630194384535582/image0.png

2019-04-08 02:40:48 UTC  

Yeah

2019-04-08 03:43:27 UTC  

Would the abbreviation for Anarcho-pacifists be AnPacs?

2019-04-08 04:32:15 UTC  
2019-04-08 05:11:47 UTC  

Get more abortions

2019-04-08 05:11:55 UTC  

🤜 🤰