It's like platformism but using a party

why do we need an extension of the working class to form the party

why not just the working class defending themselves

the "extension" just places one class above another

I'm not familiar with it

Didn't vanguardism lead to the bloodiest parts of the French Revolution?

because the working class can't all read the works of Marx, Engels, etc. and they are in conditions that they have to consent to prevent bourgeois ideology and revisionism

after a generation people maybe can take the power after a new education system is on

and the culture of revision

the ideas aren't only transferrable through academic study, and class consciousness can awaken based on working class organization and personal trust-based relationships

sure, and we should educate these people as possible in marxism; but we shouldn't let revisionist elements enter

because they bury the revolution

Good luck trying.

This all relies on people not behaving like people.

I can't be convinced.

there are ideological apparatuses of the state

No apparatus is perfect.

like the media, excessive hours of labour, education on economics (mainstream economics) working against us

thats what im saying @senfood

this is erased in a socialist society

Even if it's effective initially, it will erode over time

unjustified hierarchies are unjust, no matter how much they claim to represent justice

Nothing is completely erased.

when the conditions are there

we wouldn't need a vanguard if all people had been educated on marxist science and economics

It's incredibly doubtful

you don't need a vanguard

super elitist to think working class people cant grasp the ideas without a helping hand

That's assuming that nobody would question it or even outright reject it

It doesn't take into account straight up contrarians

by vanguard I don't mean an elite party isolated

The soviets had assemblies with Lenin

they did

but the assemblies should be *it*

unions, laborers, the people themselves

but then they were picky, Stalin tried to introduce reforms so the delegates could be elected from the assemblies and not from the party

but too late and Khruschevite revisionism entered

and there's the unjust power structure

yes

so we have to remove it as soon as possible after the education and horizontal structures are set up

people don't just give up power voluntarily