Point is, I think human nature is corruptive.

When I was an anarchist I based all my political thought in uncorruptibility

and I want to achieve it, we can do it

so, lets abolish unjust power structures

I think there's something fundamentally wrong with us as a species based on how all of our misery is self-manufactured

if humans are corruptive when in power

we can combine liquid democracy, consensus democracy, the academia and a culture of revision to achieve it

but I think first we need a vanguard to erase bourgeois ideology

I don't think it would help.

@Blebleh vanguardism freaks me out

how is that not just replacing the hierarchy with a different one

@not_matt The vanguard is an extension of the working class, of the most conscious and educated ones based in democratic centralism

It's like platformism but using a party

why do we need an extension of the working class to form the party

why not just the working class defending themselves

the "extension" just places one class above another

I'm not familiar with it

Didn't vanguardism lead to the bloodiest parts of the French Revolution?

because the working class can't all read the works of Marx, Engels, etc. and they are in conditions that they have to consent to prevent bourgeois ideology and revisionism

after a generation people maybe can take the power after a new education system is on

and the culture of revision

the ideas aren't only transferrable through academic study, and class consciousness can awaken based on working class organization and personal trust-based relationships

sure, and we should educate these people as possible in marxism; but we shouldn't let revisionist elements enter

because they bury the revolution

Good luck trying.

This all relies on people not behaving like people.

I can't be convinced.

there are ideological apparatuses of the state

No apparatus is perfect.

like the media, excessive hours of labour, education on economics (mainstream economics) working against us

thats what im saying @senfood

this is erased in a socialist society

Even if it's effective initially, it will erode over time

unjustified hierarchies are unjust, no matter how much they claim to represent justice

Nothing is completely erased.

when the conditions are there

we wouldn't need a vanguard if all people had been educated on marxist science and economics

It's incredibly doubtful

you don't need a vanguard

super elitist to think working class people cant grasp the ideas without a helping hand

That's assuming that nobody would question it or even outright reject it