@Adarsh Balak Hello. ML here. Can you please formulate the question differently so I have a better understanding.

@Firefly I don't know much about the Spanish civil war.The anarchists and the trotskyists claim that the stalinists betrayed them.Is this statement true?

And even if the stalinist did oppose them

@Adarsh Balak Stalin was supporting anarchists with guns and powder.

I'm sure there were reasons based in ML theory

Marxist in Spain mostly been willing to work with syndicalists. But syndicalists often rejected the help due to ideological reasons.

After a time more organized, Marxist groups start winning local fights and anarchists losing. In that time anarchists lost a lot of power in the region and Marxist groups gained more.

Anarchists started to rebel against Marxists groups.

Including POUM?

The problem is they lost power and consider it as a betrayal.

All because they are not used to take responsibility of their actions.

@Adarsh Balak I don't know much details.

Orwell fought alongside a trotskyist militia

And yet he found reason to blame the MLs

But I guess Orwell and materialism didn't go well enough

All of them fought alongside when Marxist groups had no power yet. After they gain some everybody start to freak out a bit.

I thought the Marxists themselves had a split

Between the trotskyists and MLs

This split is always happening. Is happening all the time. Science of Marxism has nothing in common with situational and populist power gain tactics of Trotskiests

That is why we have to split before major events. Trotskyists and mensheviks will betray in the most important moment.

responsibility for what actions?

@alines for being disorganized, losing ground, losing in a war, losing power and influence.

decentralized != disorganized
losing ground to advances by former republican allies, losing the war because of intervention by republicans, losing power and influence, once again, because of republicans

they attacked the anarchist movement

spanish republicans are traitors

Do you see the difference with Marxist groups? When in 41-43 USSR been losing ground it didn't blame the Fascist. We say **WE** were not prepared. **WE** failed to defend. **WE** lost ground due to our misery and underdevelopment. Anarchists are never to blame themselves because they do not take responsibility of anything.

because we were doing well.
before the republican government attacked the anarchists, the anarchists were the most decisive opponents to franco's movement.
then all of a sudden it became our fault?

please

When was it ever your fault? <:caring:312066184948350976>

franco almost lost because of the anarchists and the poum

he won because of the republicans

He won because overwhelming foreign aid and the Soviet union essentially killing the revolutionary fervor

They were counter-revolutionary in spain by all accounts and essentially hijacked the civil war.

i can get behind that statement

@alines Franco wasn't a communist you dumbass.

@Firefly#9983 I will give you one thing, in that the anarchists own beliefs are what make them behave so incompitently in warfare.

i never said he was.
hamfisted tactics by the republican movement led to nationalist victory.
you never actually pay attention to conversations, do you?

@alines The anarchists were at one point capable of winning the war? Nope, they were destroyed by a single group, that being the falange.

because of republcan disarmament.
how could anarchists be disarmed by republicans after being crushed by nationalists?

When even all the trotskyist internationalists in the soviet union could not defeat the Falange or Franco's armies, that really shows how bad they were.

I hate anarchists, it's all promises and no responsibility