it is possible that i drove them away with anti-statist rhetoric

at least the more active ML users

Used to be a pretty anti Communist Anarchist

Anti Communist in the sense anti ML/MLM

But then it was the marxist concept of dialectical and historical materialism that convinced me to be a statist if not a pure ML commie

I like how this server doesn't have any visible roles

Not even mods/regulars

@Adarsh Balak Hello. ML here. Can you please formulate the question differently so I have a better understanding.

@Firefly I don't know much about the Spanish civil war.The anarchists and the trotskyists claim that the stalinists betrayed them.Is this statement true?

And even if the stalinist did oppose them

@Adarsh Balak Stalin was supporting anarchists with guns and powder.

I'm sure there were reasons based in ML theory

Marxist in Spain mostly been willing to work with syndicalists. But syndicalists often rejected the help due to ideological reasons.

After a time more organized, Marxist groups start winning local fights and anarchists losing. In that time anarchists lost a lot of power in the region and Marxist groups gained more.

Anarchists started to rebel against Marxists groups.

Including POUM?

The problem is they lost power and consider it as a betrayal.

All because they are not used to take responsibility of their actions.

@Adarsh Balak I don't know much details.

Orwell fought alongside a trotskyist militia

And yet he found reason to blame the MLs

But I guess Orwell and materialism didn't go well enough

All of them fought alongside when Marxist groups had no power yet. After they gain some everybody start to freak out a bit.

I thought the Marxists themselves had a split

Between the trotskyists and MLs

This split is always happening. Is happening all the time. Science of Marxism has nothing in common with situational and populist power gain tactics of Trotskiests

That is why we have to split before major events. Trotskyists and mensheviks will betray in the most important moment.

responsibility for what actions?

@alines for being disorganized, losing ground, losing in a war, losing power and influence.

decentralized != disorganized
losing ground to advances by former republican allies, losing the war because of intervention by republicans, losing power and influence, once again, because of republicans

they attacked the anarchist movement

spanish republicans are traitors

Do you see the difference with Marxist groups? When in 41-43 USSR been losing ground it didn't blame the Fascist. We say **WE** were not prepared. **WE** failed to defend. **WE** lost ground due to our misery and underdevelopment. Anarchists are never to blame themselves because they do not take responsibility of anything.

because we were doing well.
before the republican government attacked the anarchists, the anarchists were the most decisive opponents to franco's movement.
then all of a sudden it became our fault?

please

When was it ever your fault? <:caring:312066184948350976>

franco almost lost because of the anarchists and the poum

he won because of the republicans

He won because overwhelming foreign aid and the Soviet union essentially killing the revolutionary fervor

They were counter-revolutionary in spain by all accounts and essentially hijacked the civil war.