pence caved and has even before 2016

then why did trump pick him?

I think it was because it was too late and at that point it was better to have him close and monitored than a free agent

fair enough

This says a lot...

Pence was great as a Vice President and while handling the coronavirus. But, he isn't very loyal and lacked the determination for a Trump presidency or commission.

hes just didnt want to make the situation worse

Death is too good for traitors

Pence did everything he needed to. He followed the Constitution to the letter

100%, The Old Testament is an incredibly valid and relevant document. Eye for an eye is the proverb root for 'the punishment must fit the crime.' What I'm saying is that your ever so important insight that the higher law is not something that a government can enforce, and the lesser law is still a fundamental and moral cornerstone for how we must govorn ourselves. I think I confused myself by saying that we live the higher law, but forgot what that that was just removing the lamb sacrifice and etc all other stuff associated because that was fulfilled. So sorry on my part.

Although seeing the future would be cool it would probably be disturbing and I would be better off not knowing

Hmm? wdym by "What I'm saying is that your ever so important insight that the higher law is not something that a government can enforce, and the lesser law is still a fundamental and moral cornerstone for how we must govern ourselves." Could you repeat it differently?
If I understand your statement correctly, I never said something like that. God's Laws are meant for man, so the laws of our country should always follow the moral standard set by the Lord.

The way government is set up is very worldly. Obviously. This is because everybody sucks, in other words nobody is perfect. So if a government is set up with perfect forgiveness and eternal love, it will fall apart because that is not a system that man can maintain without corruption. We gotta wait for the second coming for that. So I guess I see it this way

Old Testament: General conduct

New Testament: Personal conduct

I can't remember how I related this to the death penalty tho

It depends on the situation. I believe it's certainly morally justifiable in certain cases, but all circumstances must be taken into account, including the remorse of the individual who committed the crime.

Bravo! I saw fantastic dialogue and argumentation from you. Without proper justice, perpetrators would not fear for the crimes they commit

Thank you. That is a a wonderful summation of my points.

That's right. However, I should stress that we must be strict. The Death Penalty must be purposeful. We cannot use it too Liberally, and we cannot shelf it entirely either. Kidnapping a couple, putting them in the back of your truck. Shooting them, and setting the car on fire because the wife survived, all while you ignore their cries for help, and pleas that you turn to Christ and stop doing evil, is no accident. If their is to be any remorse from people on Death row; It should be treated with a high degree of skepticism. Most of these inmates are mentally and emotionally unstable or ill. I doubt they have the full capacity to repent or to even fake it. But, some could easily fake regret, especially psychopaths and sociopaths. It isn't simple to objectively determine whether someone is lying. Lie detector's are an option, but I've heard that they are easily faked and unreliable against people who have proper knowledge of how to forge a testimony. We should give everyone a chance, at least one. So, if there is to be any forgiveness, It must be done properly. So, should they be required to see the errors of their ways before being convicted? Well, we can't let a guilty man go without trial. Considering the great evil they have possibly committed. Are we going accept their apologies after they plea innocent, and then are found guilty? Are we really going to forgive them of the death penalty because they plea guilty?

The question I want answered is, if a death row inmate, who has been justly convicted, is truly repentant, why should he be set free? Since, he is truly repentant he can have eternal life when he dies. Isn't preferable for him to go to heaven? Do we let criminals off Scott free because they were sorry? Well, at this level of crime it seems unacceptable and unjust. I'm certain that, if this death inmate had spoke to God, recognized what he did as evil, asked for forgiveness, and vowed to sin no more. He would be welcomed into God's kingdom. It sounds nice to let this 'miracle' person Scott free and redeem himself. But, again; Can we quantify how sorry someone is? Can we objectively prove it? Is it worth the risk, to let him go? I'm not against mercy. I would let him go, if I knew without a shadow of a doubt that he had received salvation. But, we can't let them free without limits, on a whim. I'm thinking that whether they regret it or not is irrelevant. Because we are not God, only God knows his sons from the unfaithful. Being rightfully convicted, and judged with the death penalty. Makes me believe that you have to be extremely evil, and unfaithful in God.

Btw, my comments aren't in opposition to anyone's thoughts. I don't have a large disagreement with anyone here so far. I was simply expanding upon the conversation of the Death penalty.

Extremely valid points all! I admit that this isn't a topic that I have pondered extensively, since it's never been applicable to myself or anyone I know. I wasn't thinking letting them walk free, and I certainly believe they should still be tried in court. If they seem truly penitent, I would say life sentence with a chance of parole if they continue to demonstrate over long periods of time (I'm thinking 10+ years) that they have been capable of self-transformation and have not demonstrated any violent or relapsing tendencies whatsoever. I recognize that some can still fall through the cracks here- I truly don't believe that there is a single solution that would work 100% of the time in the best interest of everyone involved.
Mental illness/instability is another matter entirely, though- in some cases, death is a preferable alternative to being sent to an asylum. It's a much harder topic to deal with because it's extremely difficult to prove whether or not they were acting fully and entirely under their own conscience and were fully aware of what they were doing, and they were aware that what they were doing was wrong. For example, the instance you provided above. Setting your own car on fire instead of shooting the woman until she's dead could be seen as an act that one wouldn't perform if they were operating entirely under their own mind, but then again, who can say for sure? The death penalty may be the best option in many of these cases.
I also believe that some crimes deserve the death penalty automatically- that's why I said it depends on the situation. I believe there should be basic laws enabling the death penalty for certain crimes and that that punishment should be widely made aware of. I do agree with what you've said, and I think your first three sentences sum up my views on the matter as well.

I apologize if I seem uneducated- I think the last time I did any research on it was for the speech and debate team in middle school

No worries. I'm not sure if it's normal for a death row inmate to be waiting 10 years. But, It certainly seems like an extremely long time. I doubt that anyone could keep up an act for 10 years.
I also agree that their isn't a perfect way of conducting this. It could be debated forever!
Certainly, it is significant that people know what crimes are worthy of death. I think it isn't stressed enough in this century. People should always be made aware of the consequences for their actions. It may sound ridiculous in this context. But, it would help people make an informed decision. To me and you, it may seem obvious, that murdering 21 people is wrong, but. we all haven't read the Bible/ understand God's Law's.

Very true! It does seem surprising that so many people are uneducated about crime, among other things. And with schools neglecting to teach things like this and instead choosing to spend time on things like gender identity, it's less surprising that the crime rate is so high. My state, for example, is in the forties in terms of education quality by state, but in the top five in terms of violent crime. It's certainly a multi-layered problem!

yep. What do you think happens when you've got a culture that breeds mental illness? Yes, I believe that the mainstream culture breeds mental illness. We encourage sexual immorality and deny that is it's even wrong to begin with. We are trapped in our homes, isolated or lucky enough to at least be with family. We waste our time in the consumer culture, and many others worship celebrities. Leftist culture rejects christian values, chooses emotions instead of rationality, and when you waste police resources on enforcing stupid covid lock down rules; The result will of course, be more crime. This problem is a big ogre, and like an ogre; it has layers.

With as many factories are in Mexico, I'm sure some are more advanced now days so of needed I'm sure I could find a job in cyber security protecting them. If you have enough money you can also still have REAL guns, can't be said of Canada.

If I had to leave America I'd go to Poland.

Yeah pretty much all of Canada is California

I'm used to it <:KEK:795742276549607456>

Canada: exists
Mods: you are gay 🏳️‍🌈

<:Greta:720119386668531763> we are only partially gay

I would click on Canada, but that flag... 😐

bias against canadians amonst mods, of course <:Greta:720119386668531763>

can I say UK, New Zealand, or Australia

Members: \*sees gay*
Members: clicks Mexico

Pretty much.

🇵🇱

i choose poland

rigged election <:ScreamingLiberal2:760246375815839785>

i suggested venezula

<:Nervous_Monkey:797288817115267082>