to be honest, with some of these people, I don't know if *any* of the blame is on them

We pay doctors for an expected standard of expertise in solving our medical problems. Deferring to an "expert" is commonplace because very few can be good at everything. Problem is when everything is profit-motivated, including the treatments, and doctors get wined-and-dined by pharma companies, we don't get unbiased solutions.

I'm sure that's the case, especially regarding the elderly.

if you're some poor old rural dude who doesn't even know how the internet works, what exactly are you expected to know?

now add to that that you have chronic pain and just wanna get it over with

We get the solution that is most profitable for the companies, but can have side effects that are an accepted risk to *them*

Add to the commoditization of healthcare, such that few have a more personal relationship with their doctor...

@Jacob absolutely right

A doctor who is also a good friend you'd invite to social functions would not prescribe something likely to harm you long term. A doctor from a foreign culture who came here because they can make big bucks is different...

@wolfwood and oh my gosh half* the doctors are of foreign birth now

*Not literally, but it seems like that sometimes

I think the pharma execs who deliberatly marketed opiods to the vulnerable, and lobbied medical profession to change standards to proscribe more opiods should be dealt with as traitors

Back in CA I had to go out of my way to find a general doc who was white, and even then she was still an immigrant, with a heavy (but nice) accent.

all their familial wealth should be confiscated, company nationalized etc

@wolfwood That's something a lot of Americans don't realize, that these people who come here from foreign cultures to make money do *not* care about you

medical profession delibarely keeps medical school positions limited while importing foreign doctors

Literally no one comes here for "muh freedoms" or whatever civnats claim

also discriminates against whites

I grew up around immigrants and you guys have no idea how many times people have blatantly said that they don't actually care about America and they're just here to take what they can

Also, side not, I absolutely cannot stand heavy accents

America means white settlers

so obviously non whites don't care about that

I don't like accents in general but heavy ones are the worst

@wolfwood consider this.

Do you think it would be in affective strategy to "END Immigration" by appealing to the fact that when we take in the third worlds few and far between "higher educated people" we cheat that country out of further development by gobbling up it's higher IQ, and more effective people?

It would have the same effect no matter how we frame the argument

brain drain is a very good argument

we should throw all the narratives out there and see what sticks

It's essentially the perfect storm from start to finish to harm white people. The drug companies are motivated to make addictive treatments (not cures), the doctors are motivated to prescribe the treatments that make them the most kickback benefits from pharma companies (and return patient visits?), and a society that *cannot* admit white people are a group deserving of compassion and help.

white people not being willing to help out poor white people while preferring africans was a theme back in 1920

@Jordan - MD I've seen the brain drain argument used, but have not seen any minds changed by it, in that moment/argument.

@Perihelion - CA oh God and they go out of their way to do it, too

It somehow always comes back to "needing" the people to fill positions

When American brains move to India, white people will wake up and claim their land.

I'm surprised that it's observably ineffective at changing minds in the moment because I feel like even if you were talking to a social justice Warrior, talking about being unfair to an African nation is something they seem like they would be very into

My dad has gone on multiple trips to volunteer in central America. Like, don't your own people need help?

They would argue that you are bringing forth the brain drain argument in bad faith and that you just want to make the country whiter.

it's easier to imagine people you don't deal with often are innocent victims rather than tied up in their own problems

I would argue, who cares if I'm saying it in bad faith, the argument is equally valid

@Freiheit - CA actual brains, in jars?

Fair but they have no idea what angle you're coming at if you're just a random person on the Internet or something, so maybe it would be more effective not face-to-face lol

The brain drain argument only makes sense when America becomes the third world.

@wolfwood