so that's on us

No, if I invent a gun and you shoot somebody with it that's your fault.

Are we willing to apply the same rubric to big pharma and the fent crisis?

What's goin on here guys?

That's a solid point.
But you were never perscribed alcohol, or a bullet for that matter.

Health care professionals are instructing you to take those drugs under the guise that they will make you a healthier person.

That is deception.

You are told what alcohol and guns do.

if I was king of Alaska I'd ban alchohol sales to Inuit communities

That would be my only rebuttal.

But it's a very good point

the delusion that different people groups can all live under the same laws is silly and frankly that's on us as the ruling class. It's our delusion.

Native americans can't handle alchohol and it should be criminal to sell it to them

@Perihelion - CA I totally agree with you on that. And as a side note, this is why I love discussions like this, it really challenges beliefs.

I'm all about learning something new.

@Perihelion - CA We should apply the same logic. These drug problems aren't the fault of whatever researcher designed the drug, they're the fault of the people who market them to poor rural people who don't know better and think it'll solve their problems.

I agree

I know there's the counter argument of "they were dumb for taking the prescription bla bla bla", but I think most people have an expectation that they can trust medical professionals

It's not like most of us would know better if a doctor told us to do something

Yeah that's my point, doctor isn't telling you to drink. A doctor would sooner tell you not to drink.

You're supposed to be able to trust doctors.

ya not gonna lie, a doctor tells me to do something I'll probably do it without thinking

I think more generally don't give addicted substances to people who can't handle them

I would say a fraction of the blame does lie on the shoulders of the addicted, but I would place the majority of the responsibility solely at the feet of the medical professionals who are supposed to have our best interests, and not their pocketbooks, at heart.

to be honest, with some of these people, I don't know if *any* of the blame is on them

We pay doctors for an expected standard of expertise in solving our medical problems. Deferring to an "expert" is commonplace because very few can be good at everything. Problem is when everything is profit-motivated, including the treatments, and doctors get wined-and-dined by pharma companies, we don't get unbiased solutions.

I'm sure that's the case, especially regarding the elderly.

if you're some poor old rural dude who doesn't even know how the internet works, what exactly are you expected to know?

now add to that that you have chronic pain and just wanna get it over with

We get the solution that is most profitable for the companies, but can have side effects that are an accepted risk to *them*

Add to the commoditization of healthcare, such that few have a more personal relationship with their doctor...

@Jacob absolutely right

A doctor who is also a good friend you'd invite to social functions would not prescribe something likely to harm you long term. A doctor from a foreign culture who came here because they can make big bucks is different...

@wolfwood and oh my gosh half* the doctors are of foreign birth now

*Not literally, but it seems like that sometimes

I think the pharma execs who deliberatly marketed opiods to the vulnerable, and lobbied medical profession to change standards to proscribe more opiods should be dealt with as traitors

Back in CA I had to go out of my way to find a general doc who was white, and even then she was still an immigrant, with a heavy (but nice) accent.

all their familial wealth should be confiscated, company nationalized etc

@wolfwood That's something a lot of Americans don't realize, that these people who come here from foreign cultures to make money do *not* care about you

medical profession delibarely keeps medical school positions limited while importing foreign doctors

Literally no one comes here for "muh freedoms" or whatever civnats claim

also discriminates against whites

I grew up around immigrants and you guys have no idea how many times people have blatantly said that they don't actually care about America and they're just here to take what they can

Also, side not, I absolutely cannot stand heavy accents

America means white settlers

so obviously non whites don't care about that