Message from @luduma

Discord ID: 660405898224861204


2019-12-28 08:19:54 UTC  

Kees Streefkerk Civil 1 October 2004 1955

2019-12-28 08:20:11 UTC  

Are you one of these "hard working" Netherlanders that are going to be hurt by this deal? @luduma

2019-12-28 08:20:48 UTC  

Being a Traveler, you seem like you're pretty well off, no?

2019-12-28 08:21:04 UTC  

Just wondering how you think this will hurt people over there

2019-12-28 08:21:45 UTC  

This is the new version of Cubans in America complaining about Castro taking away their plantations

2019-12-28 08:23:54 UTC  

wow just saw the biggest negative karma on reddit

2019-12-28 08:23:58 UTC  

- 15.9k

2019-12-28 08:36:54 UTC  

I now fully understand the significance of that reddit post you shared

2019-12-28 08:37:14 UTC  

Haha

2019-12-28 08:37:27 UTC  

The -15.9k didn't quite resonate with me

2019-12-28 08:37:36 UTC  

Now I understand

2019-12-28 08:39:46 UTC  

@Dr.Cosby
Well would you be happy if you have to get a heat pump, electric cars, etc.

2019-12-28 08:40:34 UTC  

And every penny spent on this, is less money for reduced taxes, better education, better defence, better salary for police officers or teachers, etc.

2019-12-28 08:44:10 UTC  

I mean, electric cars are awesome, sure

2019-12-28 08:44:19 UTC  

That other stuff sounds pretty good too

2019-12-28 08:44:41 UTC  

As for less money going to things that you think are more important: there is your first real argument

2019-12-28 08:45:11 UTC  

And it's a valid one - because it's tough to estimate the benefits of something like "reducing emissions"

2019-12-28 08:45:35 UTC  

But just because it's tough, doesn't mean there aren't smart people who haven't done it.

2019-12-28 08:46:44 UTC  

For example, I'm not sure that "better defense" is more important for the Netherlands than this climate change stuff

2019-12-28 08:47:27 UTC  

Nor reduced taxes, and perhaps even the reduced salaries (don't your public servants actually get paid decently over there? It's in the US that they get shafted as far as I know)

2019-12-28 08:57:15 UTC  

Well they could start paying NATO enough, because only the US pay enough, if I'm correct

2019-12-28 15:28:40 UTC  

The US pays the most and it's Trump who wants the rest to pay 2% of their GDP, not "enough" @luduma

2019-12-28 15:30:39 UTC  

It's an agreement that everyone pays a certain amount of money

2019-12-28 15:33:51 UTC  

For an alliance that some European parties and groups are reconsidering its purpose or focus their payments on other services

2019-12-28 18:37:16 UTC  

for the US, NATO was never about economics. It was a bribe to get them into our security plans. They would up their spending if NATO did something more constructive

2019-12-28 18:40:02 UTC  

For the US, it's smarter if we discourage Europe from having an arms race with itself

2019-12-28 18:40:25 UTC  

as with everywhere else. If Pax Americana goes, the old imperial style trading blocs will return

2019-12-28 18:54:38 UTC  

imperialism is dead for the western world permanently as I see it.

2019-12-28 18:56:26 UTC  

Well imperialism as in actual colonization and conquest is over, but a new era of neo-colonialism is in full swing with large Western companies exploiting the third world for profit

2019-12-28 18:56:26 UTC  

GG @The Meme Lord, you just advanced to level 3!

2019-12-28 18:57:22 UTC  

If you regard that as a real thing, which I don't

2019-12-28 18:57:58 UTC  

See Confessions of an Economic Hitman

2019-12-28 18:58:24 UTC  

most left-populism around the world is aimed at the IMF

2019-12-28 19:00:10 UTC  

It happens inside Europe, too. Germany takes advantage of Hungary, Romania, etc. A Romanian lawmaker wrote a good op-ed on it recently, detailing the capital flows

2019-12-28 19:03:51 UTC  

situation in Europe vis-a-vis Greece and similar countries was predictable. It was the situation Germany set up with the EU and the Eurozone, because those countries can no longer devalue to handle their domestic debt and capital flows

2019-12-28 19:04:05 UTC  

IMF does the same thing for the entire Globe, basically

2019-12-28 19:05:41 UTC  

```Clotilde Armand is a Romanian MEP with the Renew Europe group. She is a member of the European Parliament’s budgets committee.```
```Between 2010 and 2016, Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic or Slovakia received the equivalent of 2 percent to 4 percent of their GDP in EU funds. But the flow of capital exiting these countries over the same period was between 4 percent and close to 8 percent of GDP.```

2019-12-29 07:05:17 UTC  

Pretty sure she'd get raped if she went to any of those other places

2019-12-29 07:05:24 UTC  

She's doing what she can, mate