Message from @Soup Can Sam
Discord ID: 621788941586137120
While those things have become largely synonymous, even going back to the original definition of nationalism, we’re not talking about a fervent devotion to the state, but to the culture, and a movement to align culture with state
Liberal and progressive were certainly synonymous in the 30’s and 40’s
And I would also argue they’re largely synonymous now
Is it your belief that FDR was not a liberal president?
I would argue they're not, and conflating terms is basically going to muddy the waters to the point where an argument here is pointless
Ok, we can get to that in a bit, let me just finish responding to your points
I concede the isolationist point, but I’ll revise my list then
And replace it with a disregard for treaties and preference for working unilaterally
Except that they are not synonymous. I gave very specific definitions for these terms, of which are corroborated in dictionaries and search engines today. Are these sources of information not better to go off on instead of popular, often misinformed usage?
Of which terms
Fascism and Nationalism (and I guess by proxy Isolationism, but that's not exactly related right now).
Specifically, fascism in the context of the ideology prevalent in countries during WWII.
I think your definition of fascism is incomplete
Fascism always includes all the things I laid out, including a commitment to conservative social values
I mean it isn't though. If anything, your application of the term is far too broad.
Nationalism is, in a political sense, synonymous with fascism
My application is more narrow than yours
For instance, the Modi government is a fascist government, the BNP is a fascist party
Because again, conservatives are not the individuals who would overthrow the preexisting government.
That is simply not a part of conservatism.
Conservative social values? Do you mean conservative in the context of the US or conservative in the since of preserving existing policy?
I’m talking about conservative social values, not conservatism, though fascism/nationalism is of course on the far right of the conservative spectrum
And is within conservative movement’s, as it is in the US and as it was in Germany in the 30’s
The KKK is a fascist organization for instance
As was the silver legion
It actually isn't. Nazi Germany, for example, had elements from both the left and the right.
So you mean conservative in the context of the united states or whatever country you call home then
GG @Soup Can Sam, you just advanced to level 1!
The Nazi party grew out of the conservative German parties
Conservative according to what though?
The more moderate German parties believe they could use the Nazis to drive up populist support for their coalition
"conservative" isn't a catch all term with a set definition in terms of social implication
Conservative according to local tradition
Its entirely reliant on the current state of affairs and what society you are talking about
Well, sort of
Ok well then according to local tradition, the Nazi's were extremely progressive
Social conservatism is always about the supremacy of family values and a return to a more “upright” time
You’re conflating the social and political here
I'm really not
social conservativism is still directly related to the current society
So when I say German conservatives