Yeah, I see Deller's point, there.

And yet he finds himself opposed to individualists

It's kind of a hypocritical no-win.

Your problem is with these collectives who value their groups over individuals

My point is that you think in terms of individuals when they think in terms as a collective. So what would you do to stop that?

burn them all!

And you say I'm racist.

😂

But what will you do to stop them being collectivists?

manipulate them,
most people who think in collectives aren't that bright to begin with
They're useful tools, look at how the democratic party uses them

Agreed

And the Alt Right are one of the boogiemen that empower the democrats.

well they're a boogieman due to the media propping them up as such

The democratic party knows that they think as collectives. For civic nationalism to work you need to stop them thinking as a ethinc or racial group to work. How will you do it?

that's why people like Sargon, Milo, and Jordan peterson have to be 'Alt-Right Mouthpieces'

But Aussie, you're in a collective as well.

by taking away their welfare
force them to actually bother doing something themselves

The easiest way to get someone to stop thinking collectively is to treat & judge them like an individual

I know Rye. My point is that civic nationalism gose against Human nature so it can't work.

so does communism, or any other form of group ideology

We have laws/policies that are meant to help “the X community”. Stop doing that. Make laws and policies that help everyone. By only helping “the X community” you’re enforcing the idea that everyone in that group is similar

^ ^ ^

My big concern with civic nationalism, which I prefer in theory, is that so far it hasn't addressed the assimilation question: what about those that refuse to assimilate? It only works if everyone is on-board with it, but what if they are not? I know there's the easy "don't let those people in" response, but the problem is we already have.

When in reality their individuals with individual needs

I don't know where this Deller guy came from

but I like'em

Narnia

Yes communism dosen't and that is why t dosen't work. Group Idenity is natural you need to make people atomized individuals to not think in those terms.

group identity is not natural

People turn on each other the moment its more profitable

Group identity only works when people believe theres profit as an individual in it

Yes what is history but nationals fighting each other.

they're fought for profit, resources, more control by eliminating other faiths that tell you otherwise

Yes civilization is people giving up some of their right for their benifits.

I mean even apes organize as a tribe and fight each other for resources.

yes, because its strength in numbers

if they had true group identity, the alpha of the pack wouldn't constantly shift whilst they're in their prime

That wasn't real tribalism.

lel

Today we’re allies against a common enemy, tomorrow we’re enemies because being friends is no longer in my best interests

So why shouldn't we do it in the most natural way by doing with people who are genetically similar?

#Stalin&Roosevelt