Message from @SolidHalon
Discord ID: 518629413529583640
hmmm... Expensive toys.
They're really only toys if you're not using them for work
Otherwise they're fun tools.
This is why anarchy does not work, one of the youtubers i watch from time to time that does Minecraft made this 7 day experiment where he had a server with no rules, check out what happened.
I know some people will say that's just Minecraft, not real life, but online games are the closest thing we have to test this barring something like what happens in Purge, and from what i saw it seems something like this is a result more often then not
>randos in Minecraft is an experiment
Please become scientifically literate my dude. People do run experiments re: unregulated exchange of resources and there are historical cases to study on top of that
And it always ends bad
So instead of analyzing the flaws of the ideology, or looking at historical examples like the anarchists in Spain during the civil war, the best example you can bring is a dude and his minecraft server.
Okay.
And if you want a more present example of anarchy in action, there are plenty of places you can find as testament to the flaws and nature of anarchy.
Like Slab City inCalifornia for instance:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slab_City,_California
It's an example, not best or only example, also every single one of your examples is what i would call a parasite society, it can only function because it is surrounded by organized civilization, you can't go into Slab City and start pillaging and killing because there is a proper city and state few hours away they can call in case something like that happens. This experiment only shows you how nasty people get when you truly remove all consequence.
Hopefully that's not indicative of anything.
Anarchy and communism share the same fatal flaw. The assumption that people are not asshats and are not attracted to power.
Society and government were created to control men. Thinking that modern men no longer need government is backwards reasoning.
Word
Im pretty sure the minecraft thing was just a joke
🤔
@DrYuriMom I've been thinking about this for a while. I keep hearing from some communists that while they support communism, they aren't in favor of the things that Stalin, Mao or other communist dictators had done in the past. They don't seem to consider that something about the communist system allows people like Stalin or Mao to bubble up to the top and achieve uncontested power.
So, if THEY implement it, it would work.
Ok, so what if I don't want it. What are they going to do about it?
"and it always ends bad"
the experiments didnt, and some of the regions that went stateless did better than they would have with a state. It's not a cut and dry issue @samoja
@SolidHalon It really is a narcissistic claim. They feel that they are more pure of heart than any of the successful revolutionaries. Even if they are, who's to say that those stalin-types won't just kill them while they sleep in a power grab?
According to Wikipedia: "Eventually almost all of the Bolsheviks who had played prominent roles during the Russian Revolution of 1917, or in Lenin's Soviet government, were executed."
"Out of six members of the original Politburo during the 1917 October Revolution who lived until the Great Purge, Stalin himself was the only one who remained in the Soviet Union, alive."
Oh yea they did it was terrible. I have an original copy of the tsars journal
His final journal in fact w commentary
True communism IS anarchy. Anarchy requires it's own sort of compliance. Dictators enforce compliance.
That is how dictators always take power in communism.
@Beemann The only ones that didn't that i know of were attatched to some larger civilization that kept them alive, even those eventually failed but not nearly as spectacularly as those who tried to go completely solo, again when let off the leash people tend to fall into two categories, lazybones good for nothings who don't work even if they starve and jerkasses who destroy and ruin things just because they can (not to mention rape and kill) the few good people who want to create functioning society can't shoulder all that burden.
wait, if people wont work even if they'll starve what does government do?
If there are people who will destroy shit *no matter what* how does any society function?
this doesnt seem like a well thought out position
This debate with Dawkins is a perfect example of how personal biases guide mainstream scientific perception..
Anything that contradicts these biases will just not be looked into and hence a narrative is maintained
https://youtu.be/hYzU-DoEV6k
That reminds me of some thesis being 'reviewed' by other physicists, and each one basically started with "I think it's bullshit, because I don't think so. I read a tiny bit and won't give it any further thought." which is strictly against the scientific method, and most of the further complaints were things they had skipped over in their hurry to try and disprove it, rather than let their bias be challenged. You know it's gonna be a bad time when 'scientists' start their review with personal attacks and trying to convince the person is bad, not that their thesis is wrong.
@Beemann Not government per se but organized society, it's all based on perception, our societies have certain routines and things that hold them in place, it is expected you will go out and get a job at some point, and most people are also smart enough to know that if they go out and commit crimes there is a high chance they will be caught and punished, whereas if there is no higher authority to regulate things people will just do whatever they want not thinling about consequences, you can see this clearly when natural disaster strikes, like in the aftermath of Katrina, people were going around looting and stealing even when they did not need to until National guard was deployed to restore order.
Define organized society
Also there's a huge difference between philosophical anarchic positions and total social collapse (well except for maybe ancom, in practice)
@Beemann When i say o0rganized society i mean any form of hierarchical structure that human lives in, our modern society just minimizes the ability of those on top to abuse their power. Not having hierarchical structure is completely unrealistic, from the moment children come into contact with other children a hierarchy forms usually basedf on who is the strongest and biggest, hierarchycal structure is part of human society and can not be removed, only thing you can remove is protection from abuse we took painstaking centuries to implement.
Only anarcho communism is necessarily anti hierarchical. Ancaps wouldn't argue against hierarchy, since ownership will eventually denote some tiered system, even if it doesn't move much further beyond factory owner and employees.
Also I absolutely disagree that we've minimized abuse of power. If anything it becomes easier year by year to do so