MaxKolbe
Discord ID: 285208639059263499
434 total messages. Viewing 100 per page.
Prev |
Page 2/5
| Next
@pratel You need definitions of "help" and "compassion" and "empathy" and "kind" and "nice" and "good" that are consistent that people can recognize. We don't all come to the same conclusions based on the same dataset.
@pratel What I find is that Materialists tend to treat "THe Market" like a God, yes. It's one of my problems with libertarianism generally.
@Vigil Reading the Bible in a shallow idiotic manner like that doesn't win you any points with Christians who are as smart as you or smarter, sorry.
Please don't tell Christians how to read the Bible, and I suggest you stop reading it yourself, it's obvious you don't understand it with remarks like that. ๐
@Vigil No not particularly, I've tlaked to tons of ex-Catholics and heard their stories ad nauseum. They usually boil down to poor catechesis or Father Issues.
@pratel I can see that. But my remark stands. People treat economics like a God, and that's a problem, because economics is a shifty, dodgy thing that involves quite a bit of subjectivity that doesn't always work out in the neat way Market worshippers imagine.
@Beeman "I can read the scriptures any way I want, and inform others that's how to read it, and I can ignore anything the people who actually believe and practice it have to say." Yes, I'm familiar with that old saw.
@Vigil That's abuncyh of interesting claims. I've heard them from others.
Enlighten you on what? "God abandoned me and I realized I had to grow up" -- God didn't abandon you you abandoned God but whatever. Also, I abandoned my own atheism when I realized I had to grow up and stop pretending that my own limited faculties were not sufficient either to explain the universe OR h ow to have a decent, good, and moral life. You're only going to find those things in strong philosophies, or religion, or ideally, a religion which has both.
"Hey quick question, if all the prophets go to Heaven and Elisha killed 42 children for making fun of his bald head, does God endorse murderers or do you accept that even the prophets themselves were flawed sinners but God chose preferential treatment and let them into Heaven regardless?" -- See? STill more loaded questions and presuppositions and projections. I don't accept those assertions about the Bible you're making. You're reaeding it wrong, and not the way smart Christians do. Th at is a fact. Now you can keep with your pirmitive beliefs, and acting like I share you rprimtive beliefs, but the rest of us don't have to share them with you. ;Believe wh atever you want, but I don't see it your way, sorry.
@pratel Probably because the faddish Atheism that took so much of Internet-active Millenials is a dying movement, people are figuring it out, and lookoing for alternatives. They've also realized some of their standardbearerrs/heroes, like Sargon, are pretty worthless.
Also, it's just a fact of life that atheism is going away in the general population, here and in Europe and most of the rest of the world, and young people are coming up rejecting atheism. Most people do.
@pratel It's exactly what the social science data shows. If you want to look at it I'll give you some references. As for what Sargon's done versus what I've done--pfft. You don't know anything that I"ve done, but, I can't detect that Sargon's ever accomplished much of anything except shitting on people. Some of them deserved it, so that's fine, but he has nothing to offer and no accomplishments otherwise that I can detect. Which is why I listen to smarter people who actually have constructive ideas now.
@Vigil "Don't worry guys, we can just keep lying and saying they have no rational basis for their beliefs, and we can intentionally read the book wrong, in ways we actually know they don't, to make them look bad. By doing this, we'll make ourselves more popular than ever!" Yeah, good luck with that.
Having watched him attack and smear multiple activists, I see that he's done nothing but help make it socially acceptable to criticize feminists. Beyond that, I see no evidence he's any sort of hero or done anything meaningful. I'm not neutral as I've one of the ones he's smeared and slimed, but I'm hnardly the only one.
@pratel I really like Tim, I also like Jordan Peterson, Styx, Steve Turley, and a few others.
@pratel They're rigged. Can't trust MSM, they've been down with the anti-Religious agenda for over a decade, ever since the awful New Atheist fad.
@Vigil "fascist lie about the magic sky judge" -- more lies about what other people believe.
Again, showing, why people who share your ideology is disliked: you outright lie about and insult people who don't see reality the way you do. Much like a feminist or SJW.
I have perfectly rational, evidence-based beliefs. Your description of my beliefs does not match reality.
You asked me to make a guess on something. I did. From your subsequent comments, it looks like my guess was much closer to reality than you like and it hit close to home. But, that's just the impression you give, I could be wrong. [shrug]
@Vigil Please show where I m ade any such accusation. I did make a ugess, and it's a scientific one since the scientific data shows clearlyt h at most atheists have father issues.
"comfortring lie" -- another faith-based position, and an ideological one. Not particularly rational or logical. But go on, keep trying to co nvince me to ignore the evidence and accept your ideology. Y ou're just like a feminist.
What evidence is there? We have evidence in dozens of places at once. Where would you like to begin, contemporary science or the classical evidence that's never been successfullly refuted by anyone?
So do you want to start with the classical, or the science?
For the classical, we have more than a dozen proofs we've had for thousands of years never successfully debunked. If you have the ability to think hard and study and try to understand something, try here:
Oh jeez guys, we got someone who gets his worldview from cheap shallow cartoons.
"I can't be bothered to read books or examine studies. I need you to spoonfeed it to me in ways that I personally will arbitrarily decide whether to accept or reject." No thank you. If you aren't willing to engage serious ideas seriously I have no time for you.
@Vigil You live in an amoral, repercussionless society because it abandoned God, straight up. The lies you tell yourself about religion and those of us who reject your shalow contempt and willful ignorance give those of us who don't share your worldview no reason to give you m uch respect back.
I get along with atheists who aren't hateful jackholes making ludicrous generalizations. I dont' get along with Angry Atheist Identitarians with daddy issues.
@Grenade123 On the science showing most atheists are fatherless, here:
Atheists are over 90% male, and over 90% of them have father issues. That's what the science shows. It also shows autistics more likely to be atheist, though that's still a minority of autistics. It also sh ows most grow out of it.
@Vigil If you became "less judgemental" you're not sshowing it much, with all your hateful shallow easily debunked assertions about those of us who reject your worldview.
Oh, yes, it holds with most atheists I've met. Which is lots and lots. It also holds for me. It also holds for a number of former atheists I've had on my show. ๐
I can't say I've done a formal survey of my contacts, but yes, it's very obvious most of them had no fathers or really crap fathers.
I have further provided the evidence from Paul VItz's book. I have more if you like.
@Vigil Yes and they've never been successfully debunked by anyone anywhere, so I suggest you take the time to undertandt hem. What you're showing me now is that you deliberately want to misunderstand, and will simply be abusive and nasty to anyone who disagrees with you. You've been given your evidence, son, now go and look at it and have an adult conversation about it, or, admit this an em otional issue for you not a rational one,.
LOL I find Digital Physics, Big Bang, NDE data, the moral argument, the historical data, the evolutionary data, and all more than en0ough to satisfy me in my conclusions. What you conclude is up to you, but any claim that I have no evidence, or have given no evidence, or that I am irrational is a false claim.\
@Vigil You are acting like a childish little boy with daddy issues wyho can't be bothered to discuss hard ideas.
Your religious beliefs are being challenged, your worldview being criticized. You can't handle it so you ignore all data and all science that you don't like. Very SJW, very feminist.
@Ghostler No why woudl you think that when I've been doing nothing but giving evidence you can check for yourself for why I believe what I believe?
@Grenade123 "literal or figurative" is a false dichotomy. The Bible is best understood as a library full of books set for differing purposes. Some is poetry. Some is history. Some is spiritual. Some is legal. The Bible contains allegory, metaphor, and deep concepts. "literal versus figurative" isn't even a real question.
First @Vigil says I lied when I suggested he might have father issues ( I obviously didn't, he just adm itted he came from a broken home), then h e acts like a victim when all I did was talk about scientific data anyone can check. Also, you can borrow books from a library. Take your Athist Victim Card to someone who respects it. I don't respect Atheist Victim Cards anymore than I accept SJW "I'm victim cuz I'm black/female/gay" BS. y7ou aren't a victim becuase you're an atheist, and your angry pity party for yourself is sad.
Well @Ghostler I've just been answering questions and giving scientific references to people who ask for them. This upsets some people and gets them very angry. ๐
@Beemann Sargon's Law. You're describing him and yourself. [shrug]
@Ghostler He made the ludicrous claim there's no evidence, I gave him lots. He began pounding his high chair.
He continues to ignore all the scientific data while pretending to be a victim too. It's very sad.
@Beemann Oh please. Giving someone books they can c heck out i s not a "shopping list." Good lord.
If you don't know how to use a library or borrow a book, that's your problem.
@Beemann Your armchair psychoanalysis skills are pathetic. Look at the evidence and address it like an adult, or admit that you just won't, and don't ac tually h ave a defensible position.
@Ghostler I'm sorry, what? I was asked for reference and gave them. The references I gave all contain scientific evidence. So I will ask you the same question: we have both classical evidence in over a dozen ways that's never been debunked, and we have science available in several fields. Please specify what you would like to learn about. What area interests you? What confuses you?
Summarize: Over a dozen classical proofs (five particularly good ones laid out perfectlty by Professor Ed Feser), and evidnece in quaantum physics, cosmology, evolution, biology, psychology, anthropology, history--where exactly did you want to start?
We have proofs in multiple areas. If you are unaware of any of them, that's an issue for you. I'll help you but only if you're serious.
"list all of themk" -- will you list all the proofs for the Big Bang Theory for me?
IT is clear that what you seek is to play the Atheist Game:
1: Demand Evidence
2: Instantly declare whatever you are given is Not Evidence
3: Rinse and repeat ad nauseum
We have evidence, and any claim we don't have evidenc eis a lie straight up.
If you will answer no further questions and give no indictaiton that you are actually serious, I'm not spending more time with you sorry. I'm not about chasing down references that get auto-dismissed, which is all that Identitarian Cultish Atheist Idedologues always do to all evidencet hat goes against their ideology--the ideology they lie and claim is not an ideology.
Here is your Single Piece of Evidence. Pick one. Get it out of a library. When you've digested it and th ink you understood it, come back and we'll discuss:
If you want proof in more modern scientifc arenas, got that too.
@Ghostler Big Bang Theory: given to you by a man named Georges LeMaitre. Look him up on the Internet. He was a friend of Einstein's, a Cosmologist, and a Catholic Priest. He was directly inspired by the Book of Genesis when he formulated it. The Big Bang is absolutely and undeniably evidnece that there has to be a God. LeMaitre was hesitant about saying so, but only because he believed his theory m ight be wrong.
@Ghostler A Christian who believed in the Book of Genesis used it to help him create that Big Bang Theory.
@Ghostler Certainly, by inductive logic. That an Ultimate Intelligence did it is the most rational, logical, evidence-based conclusion, and since it matches up with evidence we have in dozens of areas, it's worth listing. ๐
Any attempted alternative explanations are generally incoherent and devolve to "we just don't know" or armwaving generalizations.
The man who formulated the Big Bang Theory believed a creative intelligence was running the universe and started it, that it had a beginning, as described in the Bible (when you don't read it like a childish moron like Ken Hame).
The Big Bang Theory was given to you by a scientist and Christian who was directly inspired by his religious beliefs. You'll have to live with it.
@Ghostler I dont' think it would say much on its own.
"calling the big bang "the beginning" is misreading the current science of the big bang" -- nice try, but no it isn't.
Look, get over it, you just tried using Big Bang to somehow prove religious people stupid, and didn't know religious people gave you Big Bang based directly on their religious beliefs. hehehehehehe.
"Big bang is part of a cyclical process" -- some scientists believe this some don't. Some data says it's true and some doesn't. What of it? That's just kicking the can down the road if it's true (and it's not clear at all that it's true).
@Grenade123 I did no such thing. We have an existing hypothesis, an existing belief, a well-established one with evidence in dozens of other areas, and this one also matches it. You'll have to live wtih it. It is evidence. Your choice to dismiss it and come up with alternative explanations--all of them incoherent and unconvncing--just shows that I'm right, you're ideological and do not "lack belief" or "lack faith."
@Grenade123 It's a "guess' that got you the Big Bang Theory. You'll have to live with it.
@Ghostler You should. He's another former atheist who figured out that atheism makes no sense.
There are a lot of us out here I'm afraid. Most men do eventually abandon atheism.
@Ghostler His blog has some good stuff on it for free, and there's lots of good YouTube videos where he goes into it, if you can't find or don't have the energy to absorb the whole book.
@Ghostler He offers lots of facts, sorry. I suggest you actually examine the material before making such preposterous pronouncements about it.
Comparison to Magic--still more deliberate obtuseness.
@Beemann Christians gave you modern science and are generally very good at it. That's because science as we have it is inherently friendly to the classical Christian worldview.
@Ghostler Still more strawmen and ridiculous claims about something you haven't even read.
You are looking pretty typical of the Ideological Atheist set: you claim to stand for science evidence reason and rationality, then you refuse to look at anything that seriously challenges your current beliefs--and pretend your beliefs aren't beliefs.
"If smart people believe something, it is OK for me to declare their belief dumb even though I haven't even bothered asking them how they came to their conclusions or what evidence finally convinced them." I talk regularly with ex-Atheists, including many scientists. Want to talk to some?
I mean, that's where this really started: Atheists aren't disliked because they refuse to believe in Magic Sky Fairy Spaghetti Monster. They're disliked, politically and otherwise, because they obnoxiously declare everyone who won't be atheist with them to be stupid or brainwashed, and, furthermore, they refuse to examine or talk about any evidence that goes against their conclusions. IT's really sad.
@Schedrevka I get along just fine, dude. My Red Pill Religion project has helped eat the Atheist Hivemind on YouTube alive. IT's been fun. ๐
And I have helped TONS of people finally get over the brainwashing and figure out that "oh yes, there is rational reason for religious people to believe what they do, maybe I should look into it." Some wind up concluding the same thing I did --that the evidence overwhelmingly points to there being a God--and some are just Not Jackholes and say "I still find that evidence unconvincing but I can see why others would find it convincing." That sort of atheist no one has a problem with. It's these horrible jerks who run around ly ing about science and history and being nasty to people that give atheists such a low reputation.
@Grenade123 Agreed.
"The guy is 100% philosophy. He might offer some interesting arguments but I can't apply it because it's not based in fact." -- what idiot told you Philosophy isn't based on facts? It's based on little BUT fact.
Indeed, you 0outright lied about Ed Feser, who provides plenty of facts. There is really no reason to trake you seriously anymore. Have a good convo guys. Anyone who wants to actually learn something is welcome to come talk about this stuff on our server, where Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Christians of various types, New Agers, Deists, and atheists who actually want to get along with religious people all hang out.
434 total messages. Viewing 100 per page.
Prev |
Page 2/5
| Next