@Ghostler A Christian who believed in the Book of Genesis used it to help him create that Big Bang Theory.

Sorry, you're going to have to explain how that's proof

"The Big Bang is absolutely and undeniably evidnece that there has to be a God" - How? You can't prove it, can you?

@Ghostler Certainly, by inductive logic. That an Ultimate Intelligence did it is the most rational, logical, evidence-based conclusion, and since it matches up with evidence we have in dozens of areas, it's worth listing. 😉

You've gone back to a conclusion, not evidence

why is that rational?

Any attempted alternative explanations are generally incoherent and devolve to "we just don't know" or armwaving generalizations.

bit circular isn't it?

Ye

How so?

It seems like you're just expressing it as some magical thing because there are current limits to our understanding.

The man who formulated the Big Bang Theory believed a creative intelligence was running the universe and started it, that it had a beginning, as described in the Bible (when you don't read it like a childish moron like Ken Hame).

Lets say that we were somehow able to, via experimentation, able to re-create it. What would that say about your theory?

The Big Bang Theory was given to you by a scientist and Christian who was directly inspired by his religious beliefs. You'll have to live with it.

calling the big bang "the beginning" is misreading the current science of the big bang

its more like looking at a flashlight in the dark

@Ghostler I dont' think it would say much on its own.

Would you move the bar back? Would only the original `big bang` be a valid thing that God can do?

Hold on, so if someone came up with an idea, and they were right, how does that extend to other ideas they have?

you know there is a source emitting light, you can trace all the light rays back to that point, but you can't see behind it

"calling the big bang "the beginning" is misreading the current science of the big bang" -- nice try, but no it isn't.

Yes it is

there could be "god" holding the flashlight, or it could be sitting on the ground

Big bang is part of a cyclical process

Look, get over it, you just tried using Big Bang to somehow prove religious people stupid, and didn't know religious people gave you Big Bang based directly on their religious beliefs. hehehehehehe.

you just tried to use an unknown to prove god

"Big bang is part of a cyclical process" -- some scientists believe this some don't. Some data says it's true and some doesn't. What of it? That's just kicking the can down the road if it's true (and it's not clear at all that it's true).

which is find to believe, but not good reasoning

I don't care who makes something that's good. There's no poisoned well here. Hitler did /wonderful/ things for germany

its a guess at best

Well it doesn't have to be certain. As long as it isn't it undermines your already poor argument

That doesn't mean because he was a pile of fucking shit that I'm going to say he did nothing right and he should be ignored for all eternity

@Grenade123 I did no such thing. We have an existing hypothesis, an existing belief, a well-established one with evidence in dozens of other areas, and this one also matches it. You'll have to live wtih it. It is evidence. Your choice to dismiss it and come up with alternative explanations--all of them incoherent and unconvncing--just shows that I'm right, you're ideological and do not "lack belief" or "lack faith."

I should go to pasadena and talk to mr Feser

@Grenade123 It's a "guess' that got you the Big Bang Theory. You'll have to live with it.

@Ghostler You should. He's another former atheist who figured out that atheism makes no sense.

There are a lot of us out here I'm afraid. Most men do eventually abandon atheism.

I'll probably need to read his shit though

its more than a guess, although you can claim not everything is figured out. which is fine, its how we realized the earth isn't flat.

How hard is it to just say "I don't know" rather than making something up to explain it?

@Ghostler His blog has some good stuff on it for free, and there's lots of good YouTube videos where he goes into it, if you can't find or don't have the energy to absorb the whole book.