ThePortugueseGuy
Discord ID: 624499050284056597
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well you just intruduce another hoop you need to jump through what does it mean an negative outcome?
does the killing of the ones who are suffering constitute a positive or negative outcome
irt's another gray line on the sand
can you DJ_anuz explai why is the God of the old testament different of the God of the new
That doesn't answer the question of why we christians think that is the same God
i want you to steel man the christian argument if you can
I can do it for you
I think you are a bit far
look from my stand point
(You will need to apologize the broken English in here)It goes something like this, God made us perfect. We decide to sin against God. God always knew this and made us any way. God always had a redemption plan for humanity. God himself would die on a cross for us.
Now God need to create the circumstances for Himself to enter the world and die. Is the land where I chose to be born occupied we need to vacate that. is this people ruling over the people that i chose to be born i need to free them
so what you are seeing in the old testament is God messing with normal day to day life in order to die on a cross
now Christ already die for everyone there is no need of overruling
But it was not in condemnation that He needed to act was to put in motion His plan.
what does that sentence even mean?
God of the universe was willing to die for his creatures and to give us a path to redemption. How can you say "i WouLdn't dO It thAt WaY?"
It's only moving the pieces arround
Yes. but your children are not condemned to eternal damnation if you don't do nothing. God child were
why?
Following my evangelical tradition I know that in the day i Die I will not be blameless. Christ willl. And he will take my place in the judgement day.
what i did mean with why is @Beemann is there are atributes of God that he cannot change.
"0 iThe times of ignorance jGod overlooked, but know he lcommands all people everywhere to repent, "acts 17:30
sorry for the footnotes
eternal suffering is the fate of chosing to be far from God,
It's not His punishment
Yes
unless you believe in purgatory
evangelical denominations do not
read the verse with the annoying foot notes
"The times of ignorance God overlooked, but know he commands all people everywhere to repent" acts 17:30
I would say so
but that is way out of my league
But even that way is the blood of Christ over their lives that saves.
Do you understand now why we Christians say it's the SAME God in different missions at the time? @DJ_Anuz
I cannot parse that sentence
Time and god is not easy to explain ever
God moves through time like you move north to south. that is the first problem of that sentence
I am sure
i'll be back with the verse if you want
psalm 90:4 " 4 For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night."
i was @'ed so i did quote
please use ESV
that is the kind of english that i cannot read
i will search No problem
We do have in portuguese some KJV like translation and i do know the verses that way
but old kjv is always a struggle
esv is not that bad
it's not the amplified
i have a video with a robot voice that reads a good article but is so shitty that i do not want to send but this teological point checks out with what I believe
i am searching for the article
but good question @DJ_Anuz
i did find the answer of the video
How do you reconcile Luke 23:43, where Jesus said to one of the thieves on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise," with John 20:17, where we are told that on the third day after His death "I have not yet returned to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God"? In the latter passage, it seems that Christ has not yet gone to paradise.
Theologians have different views as to how this question should be answered. The following is a well-accepted explanation. In Luke 16:22-26, we see that hades (the equivalent of sheol in the Old Testament) is divided into two separate realms: "hell," where the unrighteous go after death; and "paradise" or "Abraham's Bosom," the place of rest for the righteous. The two realms together comprised hades -- though they were separated by a great chasm or gulf that could not be bridged by inhabitants of either side.
Christ descended into the "paradise" compartment of hades when He died (1 Pet. 3:18-20), and when the thief on the cross died he went there too. Thus, the thief was with Christ that day in paradise, yet Christ had not yet ascended into heaven.
When Christ did ascend into heaven (John 20:17), He took the rest of the inhabitants of paradise (i.e., all the Old Testament saints) with Him (Eph. 4:8-9) -- including the thief on the cross. So, there is no contradiction between Luke 23:43 and John 20:17.
@Beemann yesterday I did miss your response to what I said. So God is all powerful yet He is also righteous so He is binded by His own nature to not be tyrannical. And He is perfect and He cannot be with sinners. So it's only ultimately a problem created by God if God create Himself and picked all His attributes
@Beemann @Mandatory Carry
So... I see what I did wrong. God cannot be with unredeemed sinners ( for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:23 ESV https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.3.23.ESV ) but for those who believe we will not be unredeemed in the day we are alongside with the Father. Because the blood of Christ redeemed us. (and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, Romans 3:24 ESV https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.3.24.ESV)
So running back to my main point God cannot lie for example.
God cannot NOT do justice. that is why not condemning the sinners was not on the menu. He did somehow allow that Jesus Himself bore our sin and that was good enough for Him. (whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Romans 3:25-26 ESV https://www.bible.com/bible/59/rom.3.25-26.ESV).
I was not doing a point about salvation that's why I didn't bother to detail. But I would never say there is no path to redemption for sinners. If Christ had came to earth to save only the ones who never sinned, He may as well stay at home.
@DJ_Anuz well I think all my exercise on Sunday was irrelevant because you just dismissed what I said (steel man about God being the same with the same morality) and kept pushing without trying to refute.
You even said that what I was saying made sense.
Do you reset your thoughts when you go to sleep. Like that girl in the Adam Sandler movie
My didn't so try to refute that one
I never said that. You did. and I said you are so far from the point I not even sure that is a point. and gave you the evangelical framework.
Matt plays I doub't it
God only need one reason why what He does is not unfair. He doesn't need that every explanation of everyone that claims to be Christian to be right
@Beemann Let say christ will only die once and he does need that one time to have the biggest impact on the earth. So while He is on here does miracles so his word is amplified. The same reason why there and why than.
Jfa revista e actualizada
@Beemann Do you think people are more ready to ear the gospel now or 2000 years ago?
@Beemann that what the miracles are all about and what he Did. He raised people 4 days after they being death.
So video where even today we can make anything in a movie would always be a proof?
No one is in here raising the death
If he had invented the television he could invent premiere and skip his own dieing
@Beemann So my steel man argument fails because God didn't write it on a disk?
And it's your only objection. I can leave with that
Yah but you said that back than they were more receptives. So it does check
Raid Vatican library in search of the holy USB
If you read again the scrools you will see there is a message on there
Yeah. And belonging to a community is like jumping of a roof
We are not saying to go and explode
I am really disappointed with the agnostic/atheist faction in here if the argument I did is boiled down to there is no VHS that provesthat I am right.
Enlightenment did happen when people returned to true Christianity imo
Seemed made up that stat
Good night guys and God bless
Yeah unlike those Christians that are
Closed and unwilling to listen
@Nutz So no one kept the commandments of God Romans 3:20 (Therefore no one will be declared righteous in Godโs sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.) and so the real purpose of the law is proving us all that we fall short of God's standard.
@Legalize , @yuma_8 , @DJ_Anuz, @A. Spader How can anyone discuss baptism without bring Mathew 28
"19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[b] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.โ"
Or the way is told in the long ending of Mark
Mark 16
"15 And he said to them, โGo into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. "
So baptism is an order from Christ and by what I believe you should choose to do it instead of being done to you after you are made a disciple (One who learned about Christ). I know even in evangelical tradition there is a split Lutherans for instance baptize children.
I can get behind the idea that baptism wash away your sins. The same way I believe that a prayer asking for God forgiveness wash away my sins. Existence of sin at the moment of our death is no standard for salvation. Believing in the one who can take your place in the day of the judgement is.
when we should expect news about this case? maybe by the end of the day https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/r-g-g-r-harris-funeral-homes-inc-v-equal-opportunity-employment-commission/
@DJ_Anuz so what is happaning is you assert a explanation that is not mainstream on Christendom and then you refute the NonVeryWidely Explanation that you gave to the Christendom and because it didn't stand to your scrutiny you don't get rid the explanation some how you find reasons to get rid of the concept of the trinity itself. I can assure you that the Christian concept of christianity didn't appear to solve the situation of the cross you are talking about.
@Avald Jesus is a strange case because He is 100% God and 100% Human (God's math not mine) and human always died. And Jesus is not death. So if it was the plan of God to redeem through his death that means that Christ human body was needed dead on a cross. while his soul and his divinity was doing the redeeming part.
The problem is bigger. After Peter Boghossian and friends pull their stunt (AND I LIKED THE STUNT) how can we have a discussion if we can not believe their science?
@Beemann NO THERE IS NOT!!!
I guess you were right, @Beemann
I need to listen the rest of yesterday show to see what did brake you
there is no good solution for that. we do not want a centerist echochamber either
If we are being honnest in here, I am just starting hanging around here, and yesterday I was on the call-in waiting room before the call list open and it did bother me not being included in the conversation. I didn't know if it was normal or just my kind of luck.
@Legalize I am not talking about being included in the call in show because of time difference I didn't even try to enter the roll call, In the waiting room was being done a meme review and they were sending them via PM and no one send them to me. I did comment on it once, and keep hanging in the conversation without any context.
Is anyone reading this a F1 Fan?
I have some, what is happening in your case.
Discord is where 90% of duct tape is used.
i just enter
what a stupid discussion. No one is policing your thoughts. If you do something to child you commit a crime, if you have images or video you commit a crime, if you advocate for it you are advocating for a crime. if you are a pedophile without acting or having images, or without advocating for it I think you are a degenerate and in SIN.
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