So, forgetting the cananites for now, what about people that were born after Christ died but couldn't have heard of him (i.e American indians, Japan etc)

but that is way out of my league

My take is that evolution is God's game. Just as natural selection winnows the gene pool, spiritual selection winnows the 'spirit pool'. God is He who selects. And I presume He is selecting us *for* some greater purpose.

"Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."

Not exactly apropos of the exact discussion I guess.

@ThePortugueseGuy that is reasonable.

@uncephalized does that mean our soul or consciousness exist before God?

Or does he intentionally make us to fail?

But even that way is the blood of Christ over their lives that saves.

I've had a similar discussion with my dad but I can't remember just about any of what either of us brought up, and I've spent the past twenty or so minutes trying

I don't necessarily ascribe to the 'all-knowing, all powerful' version of God @DJ_Anuz. It may be that Creation is an experiment to produce moral souls.

It may not be possible to do so without creating castoffs as part of the selection process.

@uncephalized that's fine. :P though most Christian's would see that as excomunicatable :P

I'm not an avowed Christian, so that doesn't confront me.

In fact I don't know what I am.

I personally find the Mormon view of a pre-existence and eternal soul fascinating.

The arguments against Mormonism tends to be mostly about the origination of the theology rather than attacking the theology itself. The framework is pretty logically consistent when you delve deep into the mechanics of how it works.

Do you understand now why we Christians say it's the SAME God in different missions at the time? @DJ_Anuz

And it matches a lot of obscure old testament literature and symbolism.

Because the Catholic Church needed to get the approval of pagans to create a unified church in Rome.

What my dad and I eventually came to was that there might be the chance for redemption after death, but the bible doesn't talk about it, so we have to go about evangelizing as if there isn't that chance, and spending time worrying about what we can't know helps no one

@Draco552 you'll notice Christ told the thief on the cross that he would be with Christ in paradise that same day, before Christ went up to see the father. (As Christ told Mary after the resurrection.) Which means he couldn't have been referring to heaven.

I'm confused as to where you're getting that it wasn't heaven, explain like i'm five please

I cannot parse that sentence

When Christ was resurrected after thirty days, Mary went to touch him and he said touch me not (though more modern translations are "don't be clingy") stating that he hadn't yet ascended to see the father.

That means that Christ didn't stay in heaven between the time of death and resurrection.

Time and god is not easy to explain ever

When Christ spoke to the thief on the cross saying "today you will be with me in paradise" he couldn't have referred to heaven, as Christ himself didn't enter heaven until after the resurrection.

God moves through time like you move north to south. that is the first problem of that sentence

Read the apostles creed

@ThePortugueseGuy that's not backed by scripture.

Do you have a verse for that. I'm not saying I don't believe what you're saying but I'm having trouble remembering that specifically in the Easter story

I am sure

i'll be back with the verse if you want

psalm 90:4 " 4 For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night."

should have @'ed DJ. I was talking about what he was saying about the interaction between Jesus and Mary

i was @'ed so i did quote

https://www.gotquestions.org/God-time.html

@Draco552 sorry had to find it. Gimme a moment.

It's all good

Luke 23:42 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

please use ESV

that is the kind of english that i cannot read

i will search No problem