Lupinate

Discord ID: 380754059709382667


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@StAbby by that defintion of pantheism, I probably closest align to those that on what I think God actually is, not that it can be proven in any logical way to be but faith. Still, wouldn't be faith if you knew it was real.

2019-05-26 11:40:05 UTC [Athens #automatos_bot]  

Pls ferret

The insane irony of that is spooky.

2019-07-11 09:57:23 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Another purge I take it?

Aye. The emperor protects by cleansing this discord with fire regularly.

A sad state of affairs that such a waste of the Holy fire is needed, but alas.... Such is clown world

2019-07-12 00:20:43 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Though shops may spread globally, all nations have their own twists to their local designs and buildings. Can't think of a city that doesn't have some feature that distinguishes it from the rest.

2019-07-12 00:21:32 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

So Starbucks being ubiquitously present won't change borough market or other places in town.

Oh? @Eccles ivr never pushed white nationalism

Sorry @Eccles please justify the claim ancap = white nationalism.

It's such a non sequitur to me it beggars belief. How can you be pro nation and anti state....

I'll agree it's clumsy. But I don't think that wasn't part of the ploy. He is trying to unify them around the shittiest faces they have.

So by defaming a few in a very loose kind of way, he's forced Pelosi to support cortez and Co.

He's forcing the bad into the mainstream again.

That then means people are forced again to equivocate between Democrats and progressive insanonauts

@Zakhan mate if it were that easy, we'd have seen this 20 years prior and stopped it before it became clown World. Do not doubt the willingness of people to believe a nice sounding lie.

@Zakhan oh you'd be surprised what you can rationalise when it's a core belief...

Otherwise commies wouldn't be a 5hing still. The murders would put people off.

Venezuela still has people supporting the ideas that made them fall into the hole they are in. The man is their concern, not the method.

It's by their own hand so Meh.

I'm about half an hour behind the stream but jeeeeesus...... Pressley was cringe enough (don't take the bait, that's our job? Speech), but omar is screaming "hold my beer, bitch!"

No, I make a fortune off having a talking dog.

One presumes the dog, given context.

Trump is playing the dems and the media like a fiddle I swear...

China is fascist. #changemymind

2019-07-22 08:28:45 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

@Holo as phrased, you are correct. There is no right to life, or to just live.

Sorry @Goddess Tyche, but if you are talking about something like the US constitution, it doesn't protect the right to live. It protects the right to live *peacefully*.

Life, is a state of being, like death. All life eventually dies. Rights, at the end of the day, are claims humans make, but there is no way for a human to claim they should live in perpetuity. Well, no way to do it on their own at least.

to claim you have the right to stay alive is like saying you shouldn't ever die. That's an impossibility. The best you can hope for is to live without someone else trying to violently take all your stuff, a right to live *peacefully*.

2019-07-22 14:00:43 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Peaceful doesn't really mean without risk, @Holo . It's tied more to the idea that, in order to have any shot at life, other people have to agree to not try to murder or assault me on a whim. It's a negative right in that sense, as it requires others to not act.

2019-07-22 14:05:29 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

A tornado hitting you is a tragedy, but it's not mother nature attempting to wage a brief war against you, either. It's just weather.

Peace is simply a state of non-conflict (not at war) when it comes to them in terms of the "right to live" colloquially. Tornados and other natural disasters aren't orderly, and they don't promote states of calm, but they aren't really conflict scenarios, so to use those examples doesn't quite apply to the term from that perspective.

2019-07-22 19:11:52 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

@Holo well, strictly speaking preventing people from discrimination is a 1a violation. Right of association includes the right to disassociate from people, regardless of reasons.

2019-07-22 19:12:54 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

I'm not quite sure why racism needs to be covered by a right to live peacefully either tbf.

Yo athenians, looks like Soph got yeeted off youtube again...

Watched her pride and prejudice vid either yesterday or this morning, now "this channel is no longer available". I suspect so @HunDread

Full peal

Be glad you ain't where they did the 18h long one @Tonight at 11 - DOOM

8 bells. Over 40k changes

I think that's the kiddy fiddling doin that @Tonight at 11 - DOOM

I used to enjoy peals at the cathedral back in the day.

2019-08-01 18:29:10 UTC [Athens #tholos_general_news]  

The temple is too fast moving for this.

Soph has been kicked off youtube for having a go at the pride ceremonies and pride month.

Keey takeaways from the videos included: cali teaching kids about anal sex and object penetration by 14, as well as pedarasty (a history), the rampant hypocrisy of the community, and a brief mention of her shop. Because *merch*.

What frustrates me is when I was a kid, an open air orgy wasn't "a fun day out for the whole family" as California seems to feel it is today...

2019-08-01 18:31:22 UTC [Athens #tholos_general_news]  

Tested for UK and US. "this channel is not available" is back again. Waiting to see if bps gets yeeted for claiming borders make the world more diverse, not less.

2019-08-01 18:54:09 UTC [Athens #tholos_general_news]  

Dark mode could be seen as racist. The white text matters more in dark mode. even though its mostly black all around, only the white bits matter.

2019-08-01 18:54:58 UTC [Athens #tholos_general_news]  

But yes, light modes are just wrong, almost painful.

*illuminates the room with the golden brilliance of capitalism, liberty, and reasonably priced hookers & weed*. You asked for the light @2K?

I was having my cake and eating it @2K

I am nothing compared to mcafee @mikimof2

@mikimof2 what you need to know? Might be better to go to #<#598797564074131467> this channel is worrying too fast for me to follow well

2019-08-01 19:53:37 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Yo @mikimof2 the ancap is in. Just let me get comfortable on this throne made of socialist workers...

2019-08-01 19:59:47 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Well, started in 2012, mainly. First and last election I ever bothered to vote in, and my candidate (Ron Paul) got robbed all over the map. So that began my disillusionment. Follow that up with the ndaa of 2012,which abolished habeas corpus conceptually if you are suspected of terrorism. That really made me lose trust in the system.

I was a minarchist libertarian then. Minimal government, but need police and judges and money to be at least somewhat central for civilisation to work. Then bitcoin came out, and my ancap mates had only two markets to prove could be provided in a truly decentralised manner.

2019-08-01 20:01:40 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

And it was a lot of debate, and a lot Austrian economic theory being painstakingly explained in detail, that let me eventually realise markets can technically do it all. The private sector basically does the implementation of policies everywhere in any case.

2019-08-01 20:05:24 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Well, a lot of that is not really just capitalism alone in action. It's capitalism + the state.

2019-08-01 20:06:44 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

It's very, very hard to supply all services to someone that fulfills all demands made within an area. It's a lot easier to focus on one service or good. As such that means there is scope for a lot of competition.

2019-08-01 20:08:31 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

With competition, private companies a) are incentivised to be less corrupt (or lose customers), and b) will struggle to capture its own market or others.

With a state, we have to throw that rulebook out. You have a monopoly in play de facto, so the monopolistic system of management comes to the fore.

2019-08-01 20:08:49 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

The companies then just need to lobby or engage the state to act for it.

2019-08-01 20:09:19 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

That's a lot easier than convincing millions of people you're not just the best service, but the only one.

2019-08-01 20:12:35 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Why would they?

2019-08-01 20:15:11 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

So slavery ain't really permitted (unless someone is dumb enough to become a voluntary slave and stay that way) in ancapistan mate. Negative rights are a pillar of it, so unless you consent to it all without coercion (unlikely), it's not really an option. Well, not unless you want your neighbour to feel justified in shooting you for violating others negative rights.

2019-08-01 20:17:04 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Also to reduce prices & costs , one must have competition in market, so... That disproves your second argument...

2019-08-01 20:17:53 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

As to maximising profits, the rate of roi trends downward, so maintaining profitability becomes harder, not easier, over time.

2019-08-01 20:18:37 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

That's why we always are innovating new ways to make profit off old things.

2019-08-01 20:20:06 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Why is the state the only entity capable of regulation? Have you never heard of user reviews, user ratings, the percent scores on ebay and amazon?

2019-08-01 20:21:02 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Any why is it impossible for a market to provide the regulations themselves for other markets?

2019-08-01 20:21:31 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

I see no desirability in making regulations a monopoly provided market.

2019-08-01 20:23:05 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Justify the need for that monopoly. I'm happy to change my mind, but it better be damn convincing...

2019-08-01 20:26:39 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

OK so a) why would people give up good working conditions? You act as if the companies can just get skilled labour for free.

2019-08-01 20:27:40 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

B) They didn't accept the conditions. There we a lot of strike actions in the USA, all of which to my knowledge withstood all private intervention, until *the state militias were called in to break the strikes*.

2019-08-01 20:28:00 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

And c) those that did saw the benefit in comparison to how they lived in the 1700s.

2019-08-01 20:28:51 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

So d) why would we give up the labour benefits we set in contracts just because the government isn't there? The contracts still exist without a state mate. So do lawyers. And judges.

2019-08-01 20:30:56 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Also, if you are going to claim the state protects human rights, explain why the state justified slavery should exist for over 5000 years, before a British judge ruled it was not permitted in either British or common law.

2019-08-01 20:31:52 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

@mikimof2 is the 21st century comparable to the 19th in our cultures in any way? I say no, not really.

2019-08-01 20:41:06 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

As to your consideration "companies will just give workers bad conditions" well, there is nothing stopping people starting a company with better working conditions as a way of distinguishing oneself from the pack. Why do you think devs liked working at Google before they began hemmoraging talent? Free food, great amenities, lots of open spaces and support. They don't have to give it, but if they don't other tech companies will give them similar treatment.

2019-08-01 20:41:56 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Smes often sell their culture to prospective employees harder than salary these days.

2019-08-01 20:47:10 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

A) the goal is to get the best employees in order to maximise profits. Culture and amenities are a nice benison to a good wage packet, and if everyone is willing to offer your asking price, it's a valid way of edging competition.
B) private defense would be a thing, and is presumed in ancapistan as being a thing. It's also presumed that property rights are respected in ancapistan, so defense providers protect rights, not laws. As such, you are highly unlikely to get bands of merc brigands because of the risk other defense forces will just wipe you out for violating negative rights.

2019-08-01 20:47:38 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

C) due to tech, we have 8 hr days. Soon it may be even less with 3d printing rising so fast.

2019-08-01 20:48:55 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

D) law doesn't require a monopoly to exist. Polycentric law systems have existed for hundreds of years, surviving things like the conquest of the british in Ireland.

2019-08-01 20:50:14 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

F1) anyone who wants to and /or is fed up with how something is done now. Lots of companies I'm actively applying to started due to frustration with some thing they have to deal with (sometimes, like with taxes, because the state made it harder than it should be).

2019-08-01 20:50:50 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

F2) how? I can shoot you without a qualm if you try to enslave me.

2019-08-01 20:51:18 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

F3) as mentioned the private army option doesn't work if "shoot on sight" is everyone's recommendation to an encounter with them.

2019-08-01 20:53:07 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

And if they take your neighbour, why would you presume they won't take you? *Get your .50 cal, boys, we're goin' hunting for heretics.*

2019-08-01 21:01:30 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

A) Bournville factory can be used very flippantly as a 200 year old example why this is nonsense. They didn't have to provide housing and everything else needed to make their products, but they did. Also, it is in the interests of any company to have better knowledge, not worse.

B) the rights are negative. They are inherent because its based on what is possible when you don't do certain things (like act to stop someone speaking, or owning themselves).

And no, you just have to agree with negative rights theory and voluntary interaction, aka reciprocity. You can have a voluntary minarchic state inside ancapistan provided you don't try to invade or expand without consent.

2019-08-01 21:04:22 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

C) why work for the 12 hr contract if you can make the same working 8 somewhere else?
D) and you are presuming the only way to provide respect for contracts is by coercion. Ostricisation is also a thing you know.
F1) what kind of militia are we talking about. A bunch of guys with rifles, or a battalion from the us army? If so, it's not really a militia anymore, so how is it funded so well?

See the private army argument is really weak once you get into the economic weeds. Army's are *expensive*. It takes a lot to train a man to kill another without thinking.

2019-08-01 21:04:58 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

That costs a lot of money and time. Then there is the means, which are literally firing burning money in lead and depleted uranium forms.

2019-08-01 21:05:36 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Then there is the reputation costs. This militia is now a one client company.

2019-08-01 21:06:22 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

It can't afford to try other customers because their agents will likely be shot immediately for killing others without any cause.

2019-08-01 21:06:41 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

So now the company is employing an army.

2019-08-01 21:07:56 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

So every dead agent is a huge loss. You can forget getting any investment as a company. Then there is the company's reputation, which like its customers is gonna get shot to hell. People will stop buying those products in favour of others, and then the company has no means to pay their men.

At that point the army kills the company.

2019-08-01 21:09:08 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

So yeah, bit of a shit business model in capitalism. But if you can take people's money without them being allowed to say no, you already have taxes and a state, mate.

2019-08-01 21:09:34 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

And that's the only way to fund an aggressive army. Only taxes make it work.

2019-08-01 21:15:31 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

A) if the schools are all private they have to compete. You can get a lot of custom by cutting your prices in that market.
B) you have, just not called that. First ten articles of the constitution of the USA. Read the phrasing. It's always "shall not be infringed", not "has the right to do x". That's because of negative rights.

The idea is that you are capable of doing things in isolation which people should not stop you from being able to do out of isolation. It's based at the core on the concept of property rights, and starts with an axiom of "you own yourself".

2019-08-01 21:18:52 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

The second component is they have to be reciprocal. If you believe they exist in you, they must also exist in others like you. Ergo, if someone doesn't reciprocate your rights, you don't have to reciprocate them back.

2019-08-01 21:20:41 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

This then brings us to perhaps the most neglected right to day, the right of association, which also is protected by the first amendment in the USA. This right allows us to choose whom we associate with and whom we won't. If someone doesn't reciprocate your rights your first action is to not associate.

2019-08-01 21:25:22 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

C) why wouldn't there be? If people don't want to spend half their life working, they won't work for 12 hrs and look to work for someone asking less of them.
D) and? MySpace had the entire social network ecosystem locked down well before Facebook came along. I see no reason to presume Facebook is not susceptible to the same fate. All things die eventually, and tech companies are not know for their longevity usually.
F (catch all) so a) corporations can't exist easily without a state. The problem is liability. The state provides them a limited liability state by the incorporation process that absolves it of responsibility for many ills, and also its *shareholders*.

Now imagine being able to sue both the company and its investors for yeeting you of youtube in breach of ToS?

2019-08-01 21:26:33 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

F(cont) again armies costs a lot. Us defense budget is in the trillions. Goggle's profit margin today is no where near that.

2019-08-01 21:27:12 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

I'm not aware of any entity that turns a trillion dollar profit actually. Oh and the US military also has a 20t dollar defense spending *hole*, so a trillion in budget is a drop in the bucket mate.

2019-08-01 21:27:53 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Billion is the "unicorn" point

2019-08-01 21:33:09 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

A) only because the public sector has most of the market share. Make them all compete privately, watch the prices fit the needs of all markets.
B) its a hard way of conceptualising it. America came at it from declaring what its government was not allowed to do, (which originally was basically almost anything)
C) you only have no regulations whatsoever with a state, not without it. Markets are regulated by the consumer, other markets, and competition natively, and can be actively regulated by other companies. Examples abound again in the USA with private testing firms like UL and ieee setting standards and watermarks.

2019-08-01 21:34:21 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

D) same principle applies. There are already upstart companies, and serious issues with the policies in play. Fb acts as if it can exist and own all its content without the users creating its content. The younger generations already dislike it because their parents are there.

2019-08-01 21:35:23 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

F) because the shareholders can get sued without the state, so they won't risk their investments in that company if that company starts literally fucking over customers.

2019-08-01 21:36:19 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

F2) is it actually italy's aircraft, or the eu's? EU army ont the books mate, mind your back before Brussels stabs you in it.

2019-08-01 21:37:45 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

I don't see the economic arguments for waging a war. I see the econ arguments for how to use a war to make money by selling to the people waging war, but making war is a pure cost exercise.

2019-08-01 21:38:28 UTC [Athens #palaestra_debates]  

Your argument is "big companies will just wage war". On an armed populace. Who knows their territory better than you. And might be bloody paranoid too and have it mined.

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