"the debate ineffectiveness." There's no debate, except form people who want open borders.

It's extremely effective, by like, 95% if various articles are to be believed.

Everywhere where a wall was used to secure the border, or even just a fence, it has worked.

I really think the wall needs to be more metaphorical than literal. Put enough active pressure on the cartels and they will either back off or escalate matters

To debate the effectiveness of a wall is ridiculous

How would a metaphorical wall stop them?

By metaphorical i mean patrols

So you don't think the cartels won't tunnel under?

Active measures

That's even more expensive.

.... WE HAVE THAT

And yes, we increased funding.

Its currently hobbled tho

Tunneling, or climbing over it, it's slower, riskier.

why not just have a wall of artillery fire?

Because sometimes people do stupid shit, but they shouldn't be killed for doing stupid shit.

Tunneling in a focused spot is much easier to deal with than random route across the desert hundreds of miles apart

If your calling for arty you might as well go full chaotic evil and mine the border. No thank you.

@OtaRev Not a bad idea.

yep

Put up a sign, "mined field."

Just the sign, nothing else.

In Spanish too, "El Mined Field."

Because that much explosives is way too much.

you obviously have to have some mines

just don't say where.....

I'm again, not going to kill people for making dumb choices.

Now if they murder someone, different story.

You could put up the sign put up a layer out mines with baby powder then the mines after.

If your going that route

I would rather not?

Breaking the law of a foreign nation and disregarding their border is not a 'dumb mistake'. It's a calulated decision.

It is not worth capital punishment/war-level violence.

No matter how much you claim it is.

then build a wall

That's the idea.

For me it is. Why else do we have a nation if not to defend its borders?

A very regressive stance, in my opinion.

If you can define regressive/progressive, I may concede

Defend the borders, yes, kill people crossing the border, no.

One of these is no longer societially acceptable, where it may have been decades ago.

Which is regressive.

why not encourage them to stop coming?

So?

by shooting the fuckers who try to border hop

First before we start on the wall I want something done about the sanctuary cities and states

Because there are options to encourage them not to cross without 'we're going to murder you'.

It should be used as a last resort.

like what?

"Cross this line, or else I shoot."

Simple enough instructions.

they might piss on your words, but they know well enough not to fuck with guys with guns

Which is exactly why arresting and deporting is effective.

Because the border patrol is armed.

@OtaRev for cities, just cutoff their funding entirely
for states, threaten to revoke statehood

and if they still keep border hopping?

when then?

Make it difficult enough to not be worth the risk.

like armed guards, waiting to shoot border hoppers....

The risk is being shot

The reason they cross is because it's easy to cross right now.

There is little risk.

I don't think California would take revoking statehood as a threat.

Not much likelyhood to be caught.

have an actual minefield, and they'll stop dead in their tracks

Have a wall, and the same thing is proven to happen.

And the wall is less expensive.

And results in less death.

It's settled then: Build the wall!

`And the wall is less expensive.`
not in terms of time or volume
`And results in less death.`
and?

Explosives aren't cheap.

Concrete is pretty cheap.

it's not just concrete tho

It's primarily concrete.

Find heroin addicts who want a fresh start, and use them as cheap labor. Bed and food for building a wall

Explosive compounds are still very expensive.

That's what the NG was called in for, IIRC.

@Fitzydog give prisoners an incentive to work off their time

How expensive it is to build a moat?

So many work opportunities!

Moats need water, bruh

One of the cheapest methods, @DanielKO

<:what:382980756139409409>

Likely won't do anything though

Unless you fill it with everlasting lava.

or acid

Or just relocate the crocodiles from Florida.

Enough with eating the senile elderly, time for a mexican diet.

And children.

Got an idea for Border enforcement. Illegally cross the border and get caught. Your Made into a Full blown US Citizen. However your put into an arranged Marriage with a Feminist. Oh and only the Feminist is allowed to imitate a devoice.

Only Problem I think that'd constitute a Crime against Humanity.

As it'd put the border Hopper into Cruel and Unusual Punishment.

If you give an inch, they take a mile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7acg6WDbH4w

I didn't actually realise Alex was flipping out about it *this* much

And yet judging from the comments section of that video

People are still taking him seriously <:thronk:441701565607444482>

I mean, 'cause I *hope* he's joking 🤣

Yeah Alex kinda went full retard on that.

He actually made it a multi-day grumble.

I think Ben spent about a total of 50 seconds and a few tweets on it