We'll vote the tyranny away

Germany

Ew

and you've had how many dictators in the last 300 years?

Germany is blech

We elected Hitler though <:think_woke:378717098681171988>

do you think the holocaust would have happened if the german people hadn't been disarmed?

yes

Easily

how do you oppress an armed people?

And hitler didnt sit for as long as other german leaders

Propaganda

^

Hitler managed to make the commies flip and essentially secured 80% of the people's votes

those 20% weren't gonna do shit

they just accepted it for the most part if they weren't imprisoned and the amount of people imprisoned during the start of the Reich were not enough to stage a gun riot

the democratic aspect behind Hitler's rise was the most tragic part

an armed 20% is more than enough.

see: LA riots.

and it happened in part because the people were still Monarchist

yeah but those 20% aren't going to riot <:think_woke:378717098681171988>

They didn't see the Nazis as we do today

lol no its because mainland europeans are naturally collectivist.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/28683/cnn-bemoans-us-vets-deportation-they-bury-what-he-hank-berrien?amp&__twitter_impression=true

In Germany specifically it's because they were staunch monarchists and the aspect of democracy was weird to them

hence why Hindenburg was elected

Yeah

Being a staunch monarchist and WW1 general

I don't think you quite know what happened during the LA riots. armed shop owners stopped the looters, not the police.

Theres a difference between a city and an entire fucking country

there is a difference between rioters and the military dude

I think you're forgetting that in the utopian scenario that the people who voted for Zentrum instead of Hitler picked up arms the SA and outside forces would have slaughtered them

SA?

SA was the nazi street gang during the weimar republic

Brownshirts?

after Hitler's rise he assassinated the leadership and fused it with the SS

yes

so youre saying just give up?

don't resist?

no

People did resist

even if you take a few assholes down with you its better than letting them cart you off.

but they resisted in ways that were more efficient than 10 man gun riots

I'm with you, i'm just being realistic about the 20% number

A lot of people in those days saw a choice of Communism vs Nazism, those who didn't want Communism chose Nazism which is apparently why the churches were sympathetic to Nazis because it was Communists who were destroying churches

they did assassination attempts on hitler or gave out flyers

yea im sure the flyers helped a lot when you are physically forced to watch your family get executed in the street.

Didn't Hitler have like 40+ assassination attempts/plots against him?

Poles knew where it's at

Well their families weren't executed on the street *because* they didn't start shooting

@hitler

lmao yes the appeasement argument

I don't think you understand that the people were against resistance

if we just leave hitler alone everything will be fine!

In the German past especially

Evening fellas

Dictators and Monarchs were always hold in high regard

"the people" do not exist. Kill that idea. There are individuals.

Back from the ~~gulag~~ Gym.

What happens when they kill Hitler then Communists take over instead? They fight the Communists too or?

*the people on average*

just kill both, thats what liberalism is for.

@Ϻ14ᛟ Destroy the hitler personality cult and plunge the nation into chaos that would prevent it from warring

Bruh

you don't understand

I think pragmatically people might have thought let Hitler kill the Communists then when he is done with them, we kill Hitler

It wasn't 10 nazis and 1000 citizens

It was 1000 nazis and 10 citizens

@Short Fat Otaku Labour is useless

that was part of what made Nazi Germany unique as a dictatorship

Why wasnt the pug arrested?

Grossly offensive

#GrosslyOffensive

Atleast this circus would make sense

your argument is based on an assumption that an armed minority would be overwhelmed by the majority, thats simply not the case. No matter how badly they hated the jews I seriously doubt any of them will run into a ghetto lined with the bodies of dead brownshirts.

well the majority also has guns?

it is better to die free than live under tyranny.

yeah that's the thing

people don't always value their ideas over their lives

especially not then

because they're cowards

cowards with no principles

yeah most people are cowards

It was more then about the Jews though. They were fiercely anti-Communist which was a huge threat back then, more so then just socially nowadays but with huge communist armies near by.

American values are built up on inalienable principles

that are imbedded into the culture

other countries don't have that

they're not culturally prepared to die for their ideals

life liberty and the pursuit of happiness

What MTK said too

antifaschistische aktion were in Germany in the 1930s which were the paramilitary group for the Communist party, which is where Antifa came from.

and its made us the most successful and freest nation in human history, whats your point?

though tbf they voted 30% communist up until the final election

They had Communists in their Communities they were fighting too

I'm making the point that people here don't want guns

you said that enabled dictators

And I responded with that they didn't want to get rid of their dictators either

it isn't a matter of wanting or not wanting, you have no means of defending your rights except faith in the state.

there is literally nothing stopping another Hitler.

^

The only way a hitler could come to power now is if we elect him

Except NATO

same way the original hitler came to power

and if we elect him chances are there's not going to be the glorious uprising

the next hitler will probably be a part of NATO for all we know. European culture is based on the blissfully ignorant assumption that life will always be great and that Europe will remain largely isolated from outside threats.

No

It is based in trust into our institutions

Exactly

you put all your faith in the state

And the ways our institutions allow us to shape policy

is the word "hitler " supposed to be interchangeable for dictator right now?

For Germany yes

yes

not for me

"allow us" has a nice ring lol

XD

allow us as in enable us

but yeah funny wording

exactly, you are never free to do anything, you are allowed. permitted. privileged. you get a silly little permit. you are *not* free.

liberty is freedom from, not freedom to.

In Britain you need a freedom licence

People value their lives

yea its called a US visa.

there is a difference between the liberty to die for your beliefs

and the liberty of majority democratic rule

thats not liberty

We are the only ones that can vote to restrict our freedoms

those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

If we vote to give up our freedoms, there is no point in individual freedom

if we vote to upkeep our freedoms, we already have personal liberty

what you just described isn't liberty. again I don't think this is a concept you grasp.

If you had to ask permission it isn't a right.

This conversation is stupid

its a privilege.

We don't have a problem with it being as you call it a 'priviledge' though

This is a cultural difference front to back

We push for more or less priviledges as a democracy

the only way to guarantee your liberty is by having an insurance plan in the form of an armed people. How do you oppress people with rifles? You kick one door down and get riddled with gunfire.

Under the framework of what the basic law grants us

This is why the US is uninvadeable.

and despite the government allowing us certain things

the basic law is still inalienable

We are literally immune to foreign takeover

Having or not having arms mean shit.

Armed people can be alienated

No, geography is why

if it is disrespected by politicans, they get thrown out

This idea that "we have guns, so we are free" it's ridiculous

even if you had direct land border and no US military, you would have to outnumber us.

we have guns so we are free = we are free so long as there's not a bigger force of opinion to gun us down

@Fulcrum010 thats a simplistic take.

Your government spy the living shit out of every single human being on earth

@radeon
Because your take is simplistic

we have guns ***because*** we are free.

it is the means by which we ensure that freedom

I think guns would also guarantee freedom

>287 new messages

we ensure our freedom with our demoractic right to protest and to vote for whoever represents us best or to campaign if we don't think the person in charge is doing a good job

"we have guns, so we are free, anyone else that don't have guns live in a dictatorship" for fuck sake

What sort of fucking autism came through here?

ok, so what do you do when your parliment votes to stop all elections and repeal the constitution?

or simply ignore your rights?

your rights are words on paper, they mean nothing without enforcement.

@radeon get fucked is the answer to that, my dude

The idea that a lack of guns is dictatorship is dumb

You revolt.

The legal acess to weapon means shit during a revolution

If people want to revolt againt their government they do

With guns or no guns

a lack of guns is absolutely neccesary for dictatorship, yes

Especially since the government has really big guns

before this inevitably turns into the US gun owners vs. the military argument, let me nip that in the bud by saying that isn't what we're talking about

if they violate our basic law

to such a massive extent

goddamn

without a democratic mandate

people will find their weapons

would you guys like to take this shit to <#372513679964635138> or <#412721382003179530> ?

the police and military that oppose this decision will provide their arms as well

the point of the second amendment is to basically hold a preverbial gun to the federal governments head and prevent tyranny from ever starting

Having guns is one of the indicators of a free society, but to claim that not having guns means living in a dictatorship is just obnoxious.

Let's not fall into the trap of dealing with absolutes, the world its not black and white, everything is different shades of grey

to stop another revolution before it is ever neccesary

tbh having a gun is a completely cultural thing

if you go to 99% of countries and talk to them about their right to carry arms they'll look at you like you're a lunatic

*western countries

if you have no means of defending your freedoms then you're just waiting for the next dictator. How many tyrants has europe had in the time the US has existed? a dozen? 20? 30?

@radeon
What will stop a tyrant government is not the guns of the people, it's the will of the people to not live under a dictatorship

It's all about mindset

mindset doesn't stop jackboots.

guns will, though.

we elected our tyrants

the right to bear arms doesn't mean anything if you voluntarily accept tyranny

because you're stupid and lack liberal values

Dude, a gun is an object without magical properties

Non-Americans just dont get it @radeon

Americans don't get it

^

Pay attention to what @Ruggwain is saying

They elected their tyrants

no they have this idea of a street war with brownshirts which has nothing to do with it.

Guns or not guns would mean shit

Because they wanted that

so you're saying just give up?

no

there is no giving up

They wanted that

This is a tyrany with the consent of the electorate

It wasn't a take over

there is no giving up if there is no fight to begin with

why should we fight something we want

then what other means of ensuring your rights do you propose?

Dude

is there an alternative?

Pay attention to what he is saying

They wanted it, until it became bad

^

thats where the guns come in

the fact that you gave hitler the power you did is exactly the problem here.

Jesus fucking Christ

exactly

that's the point

@radeon basically, you don't defend yourself from something you want, something you chose. You don't fight something that you choose

we gave it to Hitler

^

@Werlf
You get it

lol

I dont agree with voting for tyrants, but I'm not a Kraut

We have the democratic mandate

it doesn't matter if we elect Merkel or hitler

noone totes their guns

first of all you shouldn't give the state the power to even begin to tyrannize you.

because noone is offended by the choice of the public

@Werlf
Under specific situation, anyone can vote for tyrants

we don't actually

Kinda like Hirohito, they wanted him

france and romania etc. still have a presidential system but we don't

can you retards fuck off to another channel?

no but your state can give itself however much power it wants with total impunity. What are you gonna do, riot?

it can't

and yes we will

in the rare case that'll happen

lol good luck with that.

and unless all of europe is plunged into chaos at the same time we will receive outside support

when has europe ever been plunged into chaos selectively?

you're all in the same boat

france etc. were doing fine during the weimar republic

italy elected mussolini at an earlier time

the WW isn't the plunge into chaos

Mussolini marched on rome

the WW is the consequence

He wasnt electes

Its a safeguard for when the people elected go against the public, that is the point. No one elects governments that they know will turn against them, guns are there for if and when it does.