@Zemo How many times has that happened?

To be clear, I'm not denying the possibility that there might have been feds but as far as I can tell, I don't know whether there were as such at all.

@Louis XIV (aka 1685Violin) I'm not going to blame feds for all of it. It was still a bad look, but looks aren't everything

is optics just the exterior than? I think it's more complicated than that

@Zemo They called Zimmerman a white hispanic.

and bleached his face

the wignat mentality is not only an exterior, it's a certain kind of philosophy that lacks respectability right?

and got away with it for the most part.

Not really. Everyone who talks about optics is literally hiding something behind a nice exterior. Its not about changing their core beliefs or end goal to be more palatable. its about dressing up for the public

Looks aren’t everything, but they aren’t nothing either. We live in the television era, everything’s recorded and filmed for all to see. We can’t afford looking bad

@Zemo They control the framing not you.

Here is a good video on this subject as a refresher. @NeoFuturist

https://youtu.be/dK8Qxo55fpI

thx

Don’t feed them the ammunition they need to smear you is what we’re saying

Then you can't engage with them. If you engage, they WILL smear you.

^

Just repeating some basic beliefs will give them ammunition.

No ones ever denied the smear will happen, but making sure you don’t look or say anything suspect will give you a better chance of the smear backfiring

They control the framing. It doesn't matter if you look amazing, they can still lie about you or not even show you.

Or not registering

"Im against gay marriage"
---- In a homophobic speech X said that he was against fundamental human rights

When you control what everyone sees, they only see what you want them to

"Kill all faggots"
--- In a homophobic speech X said that he was against fundamental human rights, except it validates their narrative

The result is the same

Its a distinction without much of a difference

yes but one is going to legitimize them more than the other

its going to make it harder to rally around that person

They already have the legitimacy

you arnt taking if from them

They have the frame not the legitimacy

this is the status quo

Those who have the frame have the legitimacy

@Zemo not much of a difference in practicality

That may be true, but it’s not as if they’re aren’t measures we can take to maximize our own legitimacy

minimizing theirs will be more effective

Maximizing yours while they still have theirs is impossible anyways

We would need a media apparatus comparable to theirs in order to accomplish that

In a situation like this legitimacy is a zero sum game

in other words, you have to weaken them and take over or replace some of their power in order to gain some form of legitimacy or the ability to somewhat frame things for yourself in a meaningful way.

Before that you are pond scum

people still see things though.
we can't control the enemy, but we can at least make ourselves less fringe to those who are swayable. optics could be part of respectability

people will judge you on what you wear on your sleeve

@NeoFuturist totally agreed in that point, dress up a bit. But it's not that by dressing up they will treat you with kid gloves.

yeah sure, i agree

both optics and respectability are important, we shouldn't downplay either

I agree as well

Optics and Respectability are one in the same in my mind

thinking about it now, optics could be a part of respectability

Respectability is everything

optics is your choice of aesthetics, wording, culture, and looks

people judge on that, and if they judge you bad, your respectability is damaged, no?

the right is not respectable by the enemy, but we could be respectable for some near the middle

It only matters if that is actually what you are.
If its just a look (which 90% of people view optics as) then your wasting your time.

i think looks can reflect the soul of the thing

wignats show what they feel and act

Humans are highly visually driven creatures

how you dress is a form of art in my eyes, which is why we need more art

Hawaiian shirt nationalism?

hah lmao

i mean, not my favorite, but if it works

And even then though it may be called Optics, it’s much more than just a look

It’s the words you choose

@Zemo the result is the same as a wignat, you get called a racist or are just not shown on media.

But see thats actually what you are.
You actually believe that putting on a suit has intrinsic artistic or aesthetic value outside of putting on a show.
In that case optics are relevant because you want to portray something that you want others to emulate and you adhere to

yeah, that's exactly why i think they are important

The cycle of events is the same, but the results may vary. Being called racist isn’t the end, the end is whether or not the public believes it

or your message is so milktoast you might as well be a republican.

i dont think wignats put on a show, i think they are expressing their views

feds put on a show

The feds and the media control the frame though so they can put on a show and people believe it. They dont play by the normal rules because they are leagues above us in power.

Sadly its not 1:1

@NeoFuturist Okay, I think we are agreeing about the usefulness of optics. Why do we have a disagreement? Is it because of semantics or the definition?

i have no idea

it could be optics is a late argument. it was with the alt-right that it started appearing

at least as far as I know

i don't see McFansy or anyone here shaving their head, throwing on boots, dressing in black, and waving swastikas in some autistic small pp energy rally

so for us it isn't really an argument

wignats finna be wignats