I shouldn't have made that statement.

The Catholic church said that crusaders were absolved of all sin, they were wrong

```The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."615 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.```

That's the beef of the Catholic doctrine

how do you know if they went to hell @Maksim

@sabrinaisheresometime ss Because no man can absolve you of Sin

Hell isn't permanent

well thats where it gets philosophical and very controversial

Hell is a placeholder

For the lake of fire

The 2 are seperate

ah

do you mind me asking your religion? I'm assuming something other than catholic 😂

He's orthodox

ok

i dont know orthodox beliefs very well

Also the church didn't absolve of all sin

The crusades was a form of penance

Revelation 20:14 KJV

```full pardon for their sins about which they are heartily contrite and have spoken in confession```

@Eoppa Is there any biblical precedent for it?

Confession?

Saying that it was a "confession" just sounds like they were trying to loophole it

No

The confession was what absolved all sin

>uh yes goyim this is a confession thing so whatever u do is a okay because u confessed it or something

Do ortho bros deny confession?

Wtf

What????

Im denying the way you portray confession in terms of the crusade

No, I'm saying the passage about the absolving of sins was about confession

We talkin' branches of Christianity here?

Further the crusades was a form of penance which is an indulgence

I adamantly disagree the crusades were a form of penance

Also, I'm not Orthodox, I'm considering converting to it but have yet to finish studying it. @Eoppa

Well, at least you're not one of those Uniates. @Maksim

What is a Uniate

Are you familiar with the Union of Brest.

No

@Maksim how were the crusades not penance?

@Eoppa How were they penance

Those who fought and died to stop an invasion, and gave up material goods to help?

Basically, Uniates are the Orthodox followers who returned to the Catholic Church under the notion that they accept the Papal authority.

They're popular in western Ukraine.

@Eoppa The crusades killed many innocents

Yes?

The worse crusades were excommunicated

I mean if a Catholic could prove to me that papal supremacy is the truth than I would convert without much fuss. @Enkrum

@Enkrum Never heard of them

The community I live in is entirely from Western Ukraine

And all of us are Baptists

Ahh, alright.

Ukrainians are Baptists? That's odd

Yeah, just search up Ukrainian Greco-Catholic Church

@Eoppa Protestants are common there.

I guess

I used to be Baptist

@Simp I'd rather walk off a short pier than come back to them.

@Enkrum if papal supremacy was true though, what grounds would you have to not

I'm not saying I want to be a Catholic

I dont

That'd be an unfortunate revelation.

I agree that there is no basis for it lmao

That's why I became Orthodox

I was from birth.

Specifically the Belarusian Orthodox Church.

Nice

I was an atheist for the majority of my life

Was quite unfortunate

When I asked my Pastor about church supremacy or whatever the concept that the church founded on a rock thing, he said it was referencing the holy church which encompasses all churches loyal to God, not a single denomination

```In the Letters of the Second Ecumenical Council of Nicea, the Roman Church is referred to as the "head of all churches" twice; at the same time it affirms Christ to be the head of the Church, and the Apostle Peter is referred to as the "chief [of the] Apostles" – but when listed with Paul they are together referred to as the "chief apostles."```

Catholic literally means universal

It is all churches

So all churches are Catholic chuches

Rad

There's a difference between the Church Catholic (Universal) and the Roman Catholic Church

Not really

The officials name of the Orthodox church is the Orthodox Catholic church is it not?

It is, but they are in schism so they aren't Catholic

What makes you so sure Rome isnt the one in schism

Because it's always been regarded as superior

It was 'persecuted' by the Byzantines because it wouldn't submit

That's why the east disavowed it at first

Was it viewed that way for theologically justified reasons?

Or was it for political ones

Given its proximity to the major powers of Europe

Which gave it infinitely more influence

Especially because their communications weren't translated from Greek, which often lead to misinterpretation which lead to tension

It was theological mostly

```Irenaeus of Lyons believed in the second century that Peter and Paul had been the founders of the Church in Rome and had appointed Linus as succeeding bishop```

Then we had the papacy preaching papal supremacy of course

Read the thing I quoted on the Council of Nicea as well

But is it not cited that the first stage of the Schism began because of the Catholic Church closing down Churches of the Byzantine Rite in what is composed of contemporary Italy, which resulted in the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople to excommunicate them in return.

Was I pinged?

@Perception Religion daily question

What is your view on what *is* hell?

Oh so its because of the role i have

Hell, for sure, isn’t the boiling cauldron that’s commonly depicted in most media.

```On July 16, 1054, Patriarch of Constantinople Michael Cerularius was excommunicated from the Christian church based in Rome, Italy. This excommunication severed the largest faction of Christianity, called Chalcedonian Christianity. The split is known as the Great Schism```