I am saying that when money is given charitably to a church it serves a purpose which is transparent and obvious. Besides meager pay for the pastor to live off of, even more meager if they have a family, all money donated goes towards growing the religion. The religion's leaders don't benefit from it.

Christianity is a cult too ngl

How so?

Churches can essentialy use scummy tactics, however in the idea of the religion, particularly christianity, its all charity. The church will then use these funds and organize missions, helping the poor or sick, donations towardshospitals or even funding of schools that need money. The church essentially used to be the ultimate lolbertarian private charity org. With govorment handouts and seperation of it from state 100% this has changed and the church in general has an issue of corruption that runs very deep ad very wide.

However as Victor said, the church is blatently transparent where its spending the money. If its keeping it its obvious. secular institutions simply dont have this, its simply less evident.

I suppose this depends what country we are talking about, but in the US it is pretty much the opposite of what you are saying about transparency. A church gets automatic charity status, thus paying no taxes, and has no obligation to report on what it does with its money. Basically a money laundering dream come true. I don’t think you need my help finding examples of very wealthy ministers bragging about it. A non-religious charity org in the US has to prove itself to the fed to get status, and also report on all its money every year to avoid taxes. There is no such standard for churches in the US.

I don’t see how you can speak so universally about ‘the church’. There are so many and so varied. Are you familiar with the Vatican Bank?

Daily <@&516817984782729217> Question <:PraiseGod:484196233020440586>

- Can one be Moral without being religious?

yeah

No

No

No

yeah, but not society

potentially, but you would do it wholly by accident and it would be unlikely

No

@AnarchoReign are you saying some individuals can be but others are not capable without a religious rule set, or are are you saying as a group a society needs a unifying structure for morality and that is always or can be religion?

@Abiss there will always be exceptions to rules, but society as a whole requires religion to avoid degeneracy and slouch into liberalist values of "do as you please", while some don't require religion to hold traditional moral values, there is not a single society on earth that can hold them without religion and that is because most people don't have the time, passion, or intellect to "reason" why they're important

@Bogatyr Bogumir , Christianity as a religion is inherently anti-charity.

yes but one can never scientifically prove why its bad to do things like crime

empathy

Or just, y'know

altruism

It's prevalent in most animal species

It helps ya fuck

or get fucked

religion doesn't even prove it either

It just mandates it

If one solely acts decently, abstaining from terrible crimes due to only their faith

they're a shitty person

Empathy is an evolved trait

It helps to work together as a group

Why would you act decently and not selfishly if you lack the morals and purpose which religion gives you?

If there is no Universal force that judges you or rather that define the morał axis then morality become arbitrary and can simply become a tool to justofy anything. Religion mandatem a common morał code an ethical code that is agreed upon and derived from the concept of God. Can a non religious person be good morally, only insofar as they under stand what having objective morals mandates. And morality is objective. An example of why the concept of God is necessary is because on a jbp video we See often, vegans as well define morality based on sufdering when sufdering is not a good measurement for morality as thenhedonism and selfishness are absolutely okay. It removes any sort of more esoteric or i direct question you can pose with morality and allows for shifting the definitions of tjings to become arbitrary.

yes

those who have religions are expected to have morals

but anyone can have morals

because, uh

everyone has empathy

every religion has relatively similar morals in many areas

Which were derived from the basics of empathy

I mean, either that or there's some universal god which gave us said base morals

In which case, deism is really the only logical religion

@Bogatyr Bogumir interesting perspective. Are you a deontologist? Do morals have goal for you?

@Alice Redacted deism is not a religion, just a position on the god question I would think

@Victor Von Doom because it is the right thing to do.

Could someone come to the same morals religion gives you on their own, without the religion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of_ignorance

^^^
a way to decide moral rules without a god, just logic+knowledge

@Abiss No, you cannot be moral without God.

That’s the claim, can you demonstrate?

All morals derive from God, more than not a Godless moral society has had a religion in it's past or knowledge of one well enough to know it's moral code.

To prove that religion is not needed for morality, you'd need to take religion and all knowledge/memory of it out of the equation. Rejection of religion is still acknowledgment of it.

And to do so is virtually impossible in the modern world.

@Abiss

That’s a good argument that it is unlikely for a species to develop morals without also developing religion along side it (the details of how they relate over said time could potentially vary quite a bit). It says nothing about being able to have morals without god.

Do you mean:
-you cannot be moral without the existence of god to create morality
Or
-morality cannot develop without the idea of god
?

Both.

Islam best

Daily <@&516817984782729217> Question <:PraiseGod:484196233020440586>

- Do we have free will? Or is everything predetermined by God? Or a mix of both?

no free will

both

Mix of both

God is gay.

We have free will

but there is still fate

@Koninos stop calling urself God that's heretic

Individual free will is the will of god, everybody's path is decided by themselves through god.

God doesnt directly determine u to hell

@Decay Look here, faggot, the Homosexuals is more than 1 person.

Good luck creating a new insult, perhaps better too, next time.

ok

why would anybody know the answer to that question

Anything anybody answers is only a guess

both, just because things are determined for everyone from birth to death doesn't mean the person isn't making a choice - the fact that they are capable of making another choice is sufficient for free will to exist

We already had this, but generally it depends on what we assume of god, if god is omnipiscent he knows all, including the future. However we have free will in that we dont know the future and therefore make decisions that are goign to occur anyway, and our decisions are going to be something in essence predetermined. Our knowing of the future, if we could, would also mean that we would still come to the point that we saw, the initiating factor beign seeing the future.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/515376401017470982/531217553738039307/696e666322e44a51c32881ffefcf8664.png

http://ocl.org/pew-study-reveals-critical-decline-in-orthodox-religious-membership/

Based gayreek

greece should be metaxist and kill all faggots and atheists in their country

Kke best party

@Decay Greece has almost no atheists.

98% Orthodox.

👌

👌🏼 😎

Not suprised the US orthodox is declining

Based greece

@Bogatyr Bogumir Who's better, Perun or Rod in your opinion?

Idk much about rod @Doctor Anon but i think hes sort of the sceibe of gods or the God of the Word. Generally i guess perun would still dominate

I still need to organizer my notes from gieysztor and then go through other books related to claim i have an avtual clue of what im Talking about

Hmmm

based gayreece

PewDiePie is going full chan in his content nowadays lads.
Can we make a Aryan messianic cult around him?
https://youtu.be/RwM9qo7yRfI

Make Greek Italian

Make Italian American

Daily <@&516817984782729217> Question <:PraiseGod:484196233020440586> (happy sunday)

- Is liberty God given?

no

liberty is a hoax

state given

if ever given

Liberty is given by the individual

Who cares about what god says?

brain fart

(Don't rape me)

I ahev ascended

Odin tells me to rape Irish women

with my beer belly

Why would you rape an ape?

Yes, God bless America

what kind of liberty are we talking, liberty from our passions and primitive selves or liberty from others? Very different approaches and either way, yes and no.

Very vague question

Question from a skeptic to Christians, why do you believe in God/the Bible?

Question from a Christian to those of lesser morals, why do you not believe in God/the Bible?

based

@CpnNevosity
“I find your lack of faith disturbing.”
-Darth Vader

This isn't an argument.

that is right

There is no argument

God is real

atheists DEBUNKED

I think the point is that the question is redundant and doesnt get anywhere.

It doesn’t matter why we did, rather why you should.

You sure you meant ‘lesser’ morals, not alternative or other or...?

Liberty, much like the importance of defying gender roles, is mandated by god

@Abiss I meant lesser morals, everything is either right or wrong. If your morals guide you towards something which in reality is wrong as if it were right they are inferior to someone’s morals which aline with the truth.

Liberty is fake and gay

it is god's authority to restrict human actions, not man made institutions - so yes it is

I'm laughing so hard at you, religious people.

@Victor Von Doom then it’s a loaded question that is going to eliminate a lot of non Christians from answering. The average non Christian doesn’t think they have lesser morals.

dear ***A T H E I S T S*** if **GOD** isn't *r e a l ,* how come ROCKS aren't **A N I M A L S Y E T ?**

atheists eternally BTFO

(I didn't get it)

rocks aren't animals because rocks are not biological, and evolution happens only with respect to biological creatures.

how the fuck didnt u get it

lmaoo

bro

I didnt get it either

Also when we talk belief and weight, atheists dont actually have a valuable position based on lack of evidence, there is a burden of rebuttle to be had otherwise neither side really has anything. so

B: I believe in god
A: What is your evidence for god existing
B: I dont have any, im making the assumption
A: Well then I will remain in my position that god doesnt exist which is an assumption itself.

The conversation here demonstrates that without actual logical arguments, evidence, or supporting logical statements neither actually has any more value, both are pointless. The discussion will usually always come down to either "thats not evidence" or "Thats a fallacy" However there is no actual counter evidence or logic.

(also beware the fallacy fallacy)

Basically the discussions most of the time are retarded and absolutely best suited to be practiced in causual debatish literally person to person discussions, because the moment things get heated nothing gets done no arguments are explored no evidence is actually presented.

Generally thats why i like to approach things purely scientifically, especially the paranormal or parapsychological phenomena, which do exist and have statistical significance, and work with our current models, generally our current models are just wrong but we assume them for the sake of practicality, and then theorize what could be going on. Its a much more coherent and neutral way to approach things, and should a parapsychological phenomena be proven true that is radical enough, it will force us to change our models for life itself and everything (currently im working on cellular consciousness or sentiennce for example as a little hypothesis i have based on the quantum mind theory)

and yay a pointless post

have a good one you chads

Why do you always have to write huge messages?

Nobody's reading them anyways.

@Koninos Cuz im basically using discord as a punching bag for all my anger and resentment at my studies because of the workload

its a decent escape

Interesting.

(If I had a punching bag then honestly id be training right now instead of writing posts)

Probably a bit constructive

@Koninos do you not enjoy @Bogatyr Bogumir is posts?

I definitely do, just wondering how can he even write so big ones.

You have never gotten a real rant going if you’ve never composed paragraphs of post.

. . .

RTRD occurs.

He posts so many rants though

It's mildly impressive, albeit sad

You're sad.

Daily <@&516817984782729217> Question <:PraiseGod:484196233020440586>

- What the objectively most harmful religion in today’s world?

sans

Judaism

Judaism

Judaism

right next to it, satanism

Christianity

Islam

then after that, scientology

islam

@Deli.v2 edgy fuck

ok

Satanism.

Satanism and Judaism are the same thing

Scientology is too outlandish to be harmful

The satanists are pure evil.

The paganist faith of Islam

Execute them in public.

Satanism is not the same thing as Judaism

Judaism is Jewish supremacy and hatred of christ

Satanism =/= Judaism, but they're both equally bad.

Satanism is pure edginess and worship of satan

Satanism is probably most harmful to a society

^

Corrupts the youth and turns people into socially inadequate increases

Judaism

Incels*

[Worst] Judaism, Satanism, Islam, Atheism, Scientology [Least Worst]

Islam is based

Islam is not based

Any form of moralist religion which seeks to impose its will over others

Abrahamic religions are all terrible

well progressivism and atheism are not technically religions, so i can't list those

Morals are not bad

morals are good

however, sometimes morals must not be used

yeah, but your subjective morals are bad

Judaism is not actually that bad, atheist jews are the real problem, so I guess Islam would have to be my pick

How is my morals bad?

Don't mind them, Anarchia is retarded. You can realise that from their name.

morals bad?

It's more that presuming your morality is better than others, or should arbitrarily be imposed over others, is bad

So, when something immoral is going on... do nothing cuz their morals are different from ours? Dumb.

I believe there's two types of morality

Purely subjective morals, and I suppose a form of...

"natural" morals

"natural" morals being the altruistic, empathetic urges we feel

I call them natural because they're seen in nature, among other animals

They should be upheld generally, yes

Values that u believe are intrinsic to humans.

I don't

but say someone's wearing some outfit too skimpy leading you to believe it's immoral... Don't be a jerk, y'know? Feel free to think that, but it's just you - they clearly believe in something else

More or less, unless it harms someone in an objective, non-spiritual sense, what reason is there to care?

Sometimes (actually most of the time) libertarians like you are unaware of how degeneracy can be capitalized on by corporations to alter our society in ways you cannot comprehend. Try thinking greater picture and how much a society will change with certain decisions instead of how you have a right to jerk off to hentai shit.

Just because something doesn't cause physical damage, does not mean it is not harmful.

"degeneracy" is subjective

The Enlightenment is a religion now

And I mean yeah, I condemn corporations as immoral if they act against the general wellbeing of society

this is "naturally immoral", as their actions, whether they cause harm passively or actively, still cause harm

Any criticism of muh natural rights or promotion of non democratic forms of government is seen as evil

Define natural rights

Do you have a natural right to watch porn?

No

And we have corporations that capitalize on these issues that will both make them stronger and us weaker as a society.

Listen. I've read Lockey and Smith and looking back on it, it makes me wish Hobbes wrote Leviathan a century later at the age of 40. Leviathan is way too archaic for me to be able to read it.

Are you condemning capitalism, or, uh...

yeah

Fukken tankies

but i'm not a socialist

Sure you aren't, comrade

they both suck and they are both the same thing

I mean

we need a mix of both

tbh

I agree, professionally produced porn is terrible

Amateur stuff - not capitalized upon, no harm done to individuals by corporations (assuming both parties are willing and doing it for reasons which aren't economic)

There ya go

Moral

Certain things have side effects tho, you may white knight and say that you don't want to push ur values on others, but ignore the fact that the degeneracy people engage in has certain consequences. Either you stand up for what you know is right, or let people delve into whatever they want, which they will be used for.

yes

vague, nebulous consequences

Also nah, not really white knighting

Like, me holding differing views is just me arriving at differing conclusions

Also, how would you counteract someone who calls...

Say, wearing clothing "degenerate"

As it "immorally hides the human form"

or something akin to that

The reason I'm not saying WHAT consequences there are is because you are a libertarian or a possible neoconservative. You are not aware enough of our society. And if you want to come to your own conclusions, do some research.

Fuck neocons

And that doesn't really answer my question

It wasn't designed to.

Libertarian.

There's objectively nothing harmful that can arrive from me blowing some dude on cam, therefore, it's not immoral

Damn. You are really unaware.

Is any party harmed, whether directly or indirectly?

Does anyone experience a loss of some type?

It took me a year of research to come to terms with this world, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Will it lead to damage, of any form, to anything - save for a few batteries I guess

What reasoning do you have to call it immoral?