America is an artificial nation, built on shared ideals rather than a history or culture. The longer it existed the more 'natural' it became.

Italy on the other hand is pretty different from Germany. Corsica and Sicily being the outstanding examples, as well as the north-south divide.

Historically wrong about America as it was by and for whites and not abstract ideals but anywho.

Sardinia I mean.

But Corsica as well, even though not a part of Italy.

My point is that a collective white identity and white national spirit are entirely possible.

Not ideal though. Idealism is the glue that held America as a nation together, not race. It's artificial and it's fucked.

Maybe you have the vision that America started off as a white nationalist juggernaut that slaughtered its way west in the name of the glorious white race but that's not entirely correct.

Right. So you hate on America for being artificial and “fucked”, but you won’t support the opposite, which is a nation nation of ethnic Americans, for reals.

I would if America was a real nation, but if you want to play a game of a million hypotheticals you can arbitrate whatever you want.

White America is a real nation.

white america!!!

.png didn't go over well with the grey background unfortunately.

Yes, white america is a real nation.

You say it goes deeper than skin color but in this case it really doesn't. It's a bunch of immigrants with nothing in common except skin color, lumped together and held together by the American Dream.

And funnily enough immigrants don't readily integrate, they stick to their own. Funny how that works.

Are you denying race?

Funny how Italians, Greeks, Jews, Irish, a million others formed their own communities.

I'm saying you're using it superficially.

Italians didn't integrate because America was white buddy.

Yeah they did. Most Italian America culture now is godfather movies and eating ice cream. White America is a thing.

What? Italians integrated because America was white and they were white? Not because of idealism?

Yes.

Even though that as the entire fucking basis of the "melting pot" and has been a talking point for American propaganda since the country was founded.

Now it's my turn to say you're naive and you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

Here comes the butthurt.

Historically America has always been a white nation specifically for whites.

I think you overestimate how inflammatory being wrong about something is.

Even the phrase “melting pot” comes from the line “a melting pot of all the races of *Europe*”.

yes American idealism is part of the American identity. But white america is a voting block and ethnic group in and of itself now.

Yes, nobody is denying immigration was mostly restricted to white countries. But this wasn't out of racial idealism and the creation of a white ethnostate, it was just out of hating darkies.

Actually it was a racial idealism. That’s what “for ourselves and our posterity” means.

🤔

You can deduce whatever you mean from sayings, but it would be neat-o if you could cite some mainstream contemporary literature corroborating your claims.

I think “Waking up from the american dream” by Greg Hood has a lot of material on this. There are also other pieces floating around dealing with American ethnic identity, especially by Lawrence Murray.

Oh. Mainstream. Well, you won’t find anything in the mainstream because the mainstream doesn’t print what it calls “white supremacists”.

Anyway, I think it’s pretty obvious that white america is a thing and an ethnic identity.

So the entire country was founded by white supremacists, on white supremacist ideals, yet nobody was writing about it for fear of offending the darkies at the time?

And if you want to cite something not mainstream, that's the equivalent of using Evola as a poster boy for fascist Italy.

If it's as widespread and apparent as you claim it is, rather than post hoc interpretations of history that fit your narrative, you shouldn't have trouble finding someone writing about it.

Sigh

So you can't?

be bothered

Didn't think so. Because it is a post hoc interpretation of history that fits your narrative. All you have is the fact that people were racist. Everybody was racist.

People were racist before a nation as we would define it today existed in the middle ages.

Against other whites no less.

Even if I’m historically wrong, my point that white america as an ethnic group identity is a thing *now* is self evident.

Let me be the one to tell you you are historically wrong, but you are correct on the latter point.

At least as a relatively fringe movement.

As a mainstream thing.

The difference is one is only allowed to condemn white america. Never to praise it.

It's getting there, but no. I live in rural America where that shit is most popular and you never see it.

If you condemn white america for being racist, you’re a hero. If you say you stand for white america, you’re nazi.

You never see it in the cities either. Ever. They only come out of the woodworks when there's liberals to fuck with.

So you mean to say it's not mainstream? That makes it fringe.

It’s mainstream to acknowledge white america being a thing

Just not in a positive way

So?

It's mainstream to acknowledge scientology is a thing.

So my point stands that you have an ethic group identity there

Just not in a positive way. Scientology is still fringe.

Regardless there is an ethnic identity, and where there is an ethnic identity, there can be a national identity, so that’s a collective white identity that has been created and exists today.

Can you name an example of an artificial ethnic identity that gained traction?

Spain has been trying it for literally centuries and hasn't succeeded.

Had to destroy ethnic identities rather than build one and hasn't even done that.

Because they have other ethnicities in spain

But.. they're all white???

The basques are a different ethnic group

Basques are white.

Even in Andalusia people look roughly the same.

But they’re a *different ethnic group*

But they're white, and you're suggesting a collective identity in America despite America being composed of several "different ethnic groups".

Be consistent.

I am. White America is one ethnic group. Basques and Spanish are two different ethnic groups.

I don't see how you can see how you aren't making sense.

The Basques have lived within Spain for centuries, and have been pressured to be a part of the Spanish nation for centuries.

I don’t understand what’s so difficult to get. Whites in America have had a long time of intermixing. Basques have always remained separate from Spain

They have always had their own ethnic territory and remained separate

I see your point, although I don't feel it's a strong one. American identity is artificial, and weak.

There are even maps of Spain showing the genetic distinction of the basques

Yes but it’s there and one day it will be strong identity as it was in the past

But we have already established that you're wrong on that part about history.

Irrelevant to your point though.

Right now collective white identity is weak but it will get stronger as more and more white people realise that nonwhites don’t care about whether they are American or Norwegian, only that they are white.

That wasn’t established. We just moved on from it because it was a digression.

It's a fringe movement because it's artificial and weak.

There is no common history or traditions.

Yes but it exists and it will flippen the mainstream

It will be normative to think of oneself as white

But you've yet to show me a precedent.

I just did. White America

But we have already established that you're wrong on that part about history.

Full circle. Cool!

Regardless of the history, white america is an ethnic group now, which is the point.

You said you "could not be bothered" to show me some contemporary literature that shows it was mainstream belief, which tells me you haven't done your research and just draw your own conclusions from the aforementioned cliches.

You can't establish a precedent.

White America is a precedent.

Are we about to do this a third time, where I tell you you're wrong and you accept it and move onto another point that goes back to how you're wrong again?

Sorry I’m not having this discussion anymore.