See, this is why I never liked Automation systems in Tekkit.

I think there will be producers, but we may find ourselves in a situation where producers are no longer the majority, which depending on your point of view may make universal suffrage untenable.

At a certain point the question becomes, "Why even play?"

you made me choke on my own spit

the leap from UBI to modded Minecraft

lol

what a twist

I mean, I see it very similarly.

Yeah, I understand the point about automating more stuff

But not everything can be automated.

The implications from the question are pretty staggering, as well. If only a few entities were automating everything, what are they automating for?

Where is the money people are purchasing things coming from? I can only see high taxes on the producers

I concede that the 95%-5% split used in my hypothetical society is unlikely, but we're on the verge of a massive transformation.

What can't be automated?

At which point, why are the producers even producing if the money is being taken away from them to supply the UBI

Saying something can't be automated just suggests a failure of imagination.

Ask Siri to tell you a joke.

Well, the producers aren't being taxed to the point of being impoverished. They'd probably still be massively wealthy simply due to the vastly increased disparity in wealrth.

Presumably they'd at least be making UBI

Like if you have an income of a billion dollars and the tax rate is 50% you're still in gold plated yacht territory.

But their work and income would have to subsidize the people who are buying stuff from them

Drinking their own piss, in a way. It's not conducive to how modern economics works.

Hence why I described the free-riders as parasitic.

The system falls apart before it gets to that point.

In that extreme hypothetical example the producers would have clear incentive to curtail the free-riders.

I should get ya'll and lotus and start up Timcast IBS

In a less clear and less extreme real-world example, the people paying taxes would have incentive to prevent increases to UBI beyond subsistence.

I know Rye can be cogent

in VC

somewhat.

And would have incentive to lower the number of people receiving UBI.

Money, especially not backed by the gold standard, is essentially worth a miniscule percentage of the labor in the nation under that currency.

In order to have a UBI, you have to tax the labor to fund it, or print more money - which decreases that percentage of labor claim

So when everything is automated and AI does all the thinking our contribution will be creativity and making problems heh... also, how many ppl this kind of environment can sustain? UBI will probably be free food, basic healthcare, shelter, basic clothing and utilities. For everything extra we will have to earn somekind of "bitcoin".

gold has asighned value same as shells (polinesian islands i think)... you can assighn value to healthy living ... walk is already measurable... it can be mined

Presumably, it would be sustainable to the extent that resources such as metal, stone, necessary farmland, etc can stretch

I'm a free market capitalist at heart but if the trend in automation continues to the point of artificial general intelligence, then we're going to have to start thinking outside the box if we want to avoid dystopia.

Dystopia within the singularity is inevitable.

If that's the path we take.

AI for anything more than amusement is a bad idea.

We should be focusing on how to enhance humans using AI, as opposed to replacing them with it.

Unfortunately it's too powerful to prevent. It is too incredibly valuable and the first company or government to have one will have a massive advantage.

There's a race already underway towards AGI.

But while that's probably something we have to consider in our lifetimes, I'm more concerned about the next 10 years.

Let's consider what you said earlier

You'd said that the vote might have to be revoked to the 'freeloaders'.

also knowladge... we are already tracked... what you learn can be made measurable... anybody read ready player one? Concept of school is in the right direction just few corrections for making money is needed

I want to be clear that I'm not advocating for removing the vote from anyone.

But it may be necessary, right?

I'm just saying that democracy was only viable in societies where the vast majority were producers and wealth disparity was relatively low.

How do you prevent the monopoly in power from finding a way to cull the 'parasites' to prevent losing power?

Otherwise what you end up with is non-producers voting themselves the wealth of the producers, who obviously will use their relative power and resources to resist, and society breaks down.

You don't.

Either way you go in, it's a huge ethical black hole you don't come back out of.

Yep.

And we have to sort this stuff out right now, because the tech is here.

Self-driving cars and trucks, and Google Duplex are going to basically eliminate humans from tens of millions of jobs in the next ten years.

And in those ten years more tech is going to be created which disrupt more sectors.

And there is political deadlock everywhere.

I have a buddy who works in a call center. That's already an untenable job in a wealthy western country.

Now that Google Duplex exists he's got a year or two at best at that job.

As someone who takes pride in work, you're already spelling out nightmare fuel for me...

Work will still exist, but wages are going to go down for everyone in the middle of the IQ distribution.

Like nobody wants to have their arse wiped by a cold metal claw so nurses are still safe.

Speak for yourself

Ditto for therapists and any other job specifically requiring a human touch or human empathy.

heheh

But you're going to have more and more people forced into competing in those sectors so wages are going to go down regardless.

The good news is, is that you can get more nurses, teachers, etc for the same money. So that's an improvement.

Sports will still be safe

and inovations

and op eds

Anything that requires people at the extreme ends of the ability distribution.

As will other branches of entertainment

But if you're not a 130+ IQ person, or a 10/10 model, etc, you're looking at increased competition.

imagine public AI

In fact, without day jobs, these areas would likely thrive.

you make it develope your idea.. and you offer it on the market

This sort of thing would only be remotely possible in a one world government, though, I think...

I think what we're going to see in the near term is increased support for UBI or some sort of income supplementation program like negative income tax, along with societal change taking advantage at the dropping cost of mundane human labor.

i don't think it would be without ai managing all laws and adjusting to basic human rights

Mundane human labor like servants basically.

Illegal Mexican workers are going to start facing competition from legal workers.

Laborers and nannies and gardeners.

And the stay-at-home mom is gonna make a comeback.

if you have nothing to do and you like to be outside you will manage your own garden... many people find it enjoyable

If you can afford to have a garden you have something to do.

The stay at home mom was lost to inflation.

Actually it remains to be seen whether it'll be a stay-at-home mom or a stay-at-home dad that becomes the norm. Men might find themselves out of luck in a job market that places more value on people skills, human touch, and empathy.

sports

There's a saturation point to that market, and nobody wants to pay to see joe average. They want to pay to see people who are 3 standard deviations above the mean.

also i think cops will be replaced with machine you will guide from somewhere else (video game)

In societies today with extreme wealth disparity, traditional police are often supplemented with private security services for wealthy neighborhoods. See South Africa.

so does any of you know how many ppl in the world have at least 1 mil dollars? 10, 20 million? I know there is at least 1k billionairs

1% would be more than 70 mil

~~the top 1% in the United States alone earn around $200,000 a year.~~

465,626 a year is the top 1% as of 2014.

this is aprox 3,5 mil ppl average?

My head hurts too much to find that.

I've been dealing with an infection all day, leading me to vomiting and dizziness all day...