Depends on what one thinks is moral.

They think dressing up 6 years old in drag is moral.

yea you got me there

it's hard to square left-wing redistributive economics with libertarianism.

And if you say something about it, you get owen benjamin'd

>extremeism is never good
I find this phrase misused everyday. How do you even define "extremism"?

considering left-wing economics requires the government to have complete control of your fiscal life

I understand it this way because I used to be a lefty when it was the devil's advocate. When it was against the status quo. But I was also young and incredibly stupid.

I'm not left economically, I'm left because they historically have defended the rights to individual liberty to live and love as we wish

oh yea i was a democrat back in senior year of high school

@DrYuriMom I disagree

then my folks actually talked to me about politics and i had no explanation for why i was a democrat

Historically yes, @DrYuriMom which is why people like Dave Rubin classify it at classical liberalism.

I believe in economic liberty

the Conservatives are the ones with the motto, live and let live. Whatever you choose to do in your private life, it's for you to decide

Modern liberalism is anti liberty.

^

I also believe in personal liberty

It's about freedom for some but not for all

if you are rich you are punished for being successful

you can't really believe in economic and personal liberty and be on the left 🤔
can you?

if you are poor you are rewarded for just being poor

Because I'm a woman married to a woman, those in power on the right hate me and those in power on the left fought for my right to marry.

Now I don't dilute myself into thinking the conservatives really believe in freedom for all. They're shutting down a lot of things for trans people simply because they don't hold a greater share of the population. But I also just don't care. I do think the majority wins out.

@DrYuriMom why is the right to marry important to you?

those in power on the right don't care about your relationships.

Fortunately there are men like Ted Olson who believe in personal liberty even if it's not popular on the right

Well, until a few years ago they fought very hard to keep me from being married

I think the state should be removed from "marriage"

and those people were pushed out because they're out-of-touch losers.

the religious right is stone dead.

They still have a lot of power

I wish

honestly i dont understand why its an issue to be gay, as long as others dont affect my life i dont care what they do

>the religious right is stone dead.
as someone that is right-wing. I "pray" everyday that that is true

its not

But aren't you being a little normie about this, Cat? I do think the republicans are just using this time to gain ground and say they are for everyone's freedom. But this deception is still better than the demacrats honestly speaking what they want for the future. It's unregulated insanity that can't hold up in a structured world.

I hope it becomes true in the future

honestly im not sure about that, i think its fine for people to believe things as long as they dont force their beliefs

i would like to see specific examples of sitting republicans threatening gay rights - and not merely advocating that it should be a state issue.

Everyone who fought to defend DOMA were arguing that the federal gov't should deny recognition of same-sex marriages for federal reasons including joint taxes

I know it'll warrant screams of straw-man, but I don't trust the left enough to give them things and not have it be mandate a day later. They're children. They've devolved into babies that when they get what they want, they want more.

I'm not a Democrat. just for the record

I am registered as an Independent in my state

is anybody actually democrat or GOP these days lol

i registered as a republican

i mean with core issues you believe it all.

I'll be honest, I don't think same-sex couples should get advantages that were put in place because in the old days marriages meant reproduction

if you consider yourself center-anything, you're neither

i don't think anyone should get advantages.

^

government should not be involved in marriage period

indeed

No argument

if marriages aren't innerently to reproduce, the state should get out of that (along with all the benefits)

Big agree

actually i would give advantages for people who stay married and have kids

it might keep the single mother rate down

marriage is a mild tax penalty

XD

It is a major penalty for those couples where one stays home with the kids like my wife did

I don't have the stats to back this up, but i'd be willing to bet money that the only people who have gained advantages in the past 40 years have all voted democrat

@Pyro there are more incentives to divorce nowadays than to stay married

yea thats why

If we want to encourage kids, we need a way for couples to file jointly

the benefits it conveys stem from joint ownership or survivorship rights

Unless we ditch income tax 🤔

so the government should reward families who stay married

Whether same sex or not ^^

I'm also not convinced that same-sex couples are the greatest of the environments to raise kids. But as the whole thing is new, there's no data on this

i love tax reform

make a couple worse off for divorcing in the first place

data seems to show that it is at least better than single parent environments

I think same-sex couple who ensure that their kids have wholesome interaction with members of the unrepresented sex do pretty well

Then again, I'm biased

ideally the federal income tax burden would shrink and the state tax burden would increase to take up the slack. then if the state wants to give benefits, that's their business.

But I've seen plenty of others who follow the same model we do and they all seem to have happy families

and this is something most people just don't understand
pull tax records on the homes in San Francisco's Castro district
a lot of those properties pay next to nothing because ownership has been passed from spouse to spouse
and the taxable value is set on transfer

@DrYuriMom I agree, the thing is, a high number of same-sex couples are deviants

I mean, they promote a lot of weird things

The 10th Amendment embers of my heart burn for you, Atkins 😽

so, from a statistical point of view, it's not a net positive to society

So do hetero couples

I don't think there's been enough time to say that same-sex marriages are actually positive for family structures. Especially when those family structures have been based on a culture that uses male/female forever.

Scientifically

I'm doing grand jury duty right now. Lots of hetero couples are screwed up.

If you want to talk about data

Just like Peterson talks about men and women in the workplace, there just hasn't been enough time devoted to the experiment.

@DrYuriMom the left screwed with family values

so that argument isn't really strong

well, if you listen to haidt or peterson they'd say that people on the right tend to have strong disgust reactions. i'd say that a lot of right-wing types get squicked out pretty hard by the antics at gay pride parades.

But are gays left?

But with that said, I'm not saying you don't deserve a family and love. It just might not work out

Or is "left' an economic thing?

the left thinks they OWN all the gays votes

People keep calling me an outlier, but I will keep saying I get rather peeved when people call *me* the destruction of the family when I've been married faithfully for 29 years and have two wonderful kids, 17yo and 19yo. I get that from divorcees. They can pound sand as far as I'm concerned.

The destruction of the family are stupid irresponsible teenagers who have kids in high school and get married as soon as they're 18

I got married at 19yo. Still married to this day. 😃

Atkins, I agree about the Pride Parade stuff. It squicks me out. 😕

Keywords "stupid irresponsible"