emphasis added

and sorry it's Marsy's Law, not Marcy's Law

TL;DR: A billionaire in California started this organization after his sister was killed and the family encountered her killer in a grocery store a week later and weren't notified by the court that he was out on bail.

Some aspects of the law seem pretty reasonable, like notifying alleged victims after an alleged defendant is released on bail. I don't see any issue with that

But, as per usual with these things, the comprehensive list of points in this cookie-cutter amendment to states' constitutions includes too much.

including giving alleged victims the right to "be heard" at every proceeding

My main morale argument is against the declaration of victimhood before a trial has even begun. On principle I just don't think that this ensures a fair trial.

Mmm I agree with you

It sounds like it might be unconstitutional on those grounds

the language of this organization and in the cookie-cutter amendments adopted by states doesn't use the term "alleged"

just declares them victims. so that's problematic

> TL;DR: A billionaire in California started this organization after his sister was killed and the family encountered her killer in a grocery store a week later and weren't notified by the court that he was out on bail.
>
> Some aspects of the law seem pretty reasonable, like notifying alleged victims after an alleged defendant is released on bail. I don't see any issue with that
@Neph (Nec) / Krystaps (War) I think the courts had a mechanism in place to allow for notification but only on request by the victims family. I know I have seen it in other states like Florida for one but it is usually in domestic matters. The victims or their family are allowed to be present but have no say other than in sentencing.

If my sister was killed and I encountered her killer in a grocery store... They would need 🧹 clean up in the isle he was in.

@xephael I share that view

Cleanup aisle 5

If I was a billionaire, you better be hiding better than Osama did😂

https://waow.com/2020/11/09/gun-used-by-rittenhouse-in-kenosha-killings-was-bought-in-ladysmith-complaint-states/

This breaking news on the rittenhouse case?

`The complaint says Black bought the gun with money from Rittenhouse with the intention of giving the gun to him.`

They'd have a helluva time proving who's money it was, & loaning a rifle unless I'm mistaken isn't a crime

This Writtenhouse Thing is a Political Farce far as I'm concerned

Seeing the election results, I got to say it's not looking good for Rittenhouse

hopefully we don't live in a place where the election results have an impact on a case

Are we expecting the new regime to interfere in this case?

Will he be convicted though?

How do you buy an illegal gun if you are legally allowed to buy it lol

Wouldn't that type of purchase, if proven, be considered a "straw" or "straw hat" purchase? I do believe those types of purchases are illegal. In PA i know they are illegal.

yes

they put up warning signs all over the stores

although in this case I am not sure

he wasn't actually not allowed to have the gun

(he was perhaps in context)

but there are hunting exceptions

so maybe - even if this allegation is 100% and provable - he can claim that he is not meant to be covered by limits of "straw purchase" laws, because he is not a felon or whatever, and could use the weapon, just under specific circumstances allowed by the hunting exception

Since his incident wasn't a hunting exception, could he still be charged with the "unlawful possession of a deadly weapon by a minor" charge in Wisconsin? It's a misdemeanor but would it still fall under the particular statute since he is a minor and he was in possession of a deadly weapon? If Robert already covered it then I probably missed it.

Robert doesn't know

he said it has no impact on the murder charge

except

well if you scroll up you'll find a conversation about WI self defense law saying that it does not apply if self defense is done while doing a criminal act

so that complicates things

Robert made the argument that this - if attempted to be applied this way - might be unconstitutional (because 2nd amendment implies self defense, regardless of state laws regarding possession)

others (maybe Robert said this but I did not hear) have said that this sort of argument might upend a lot of cases where people _do_ get off murder charges on self defense even though they are charged with illegal possession at the same time (though I dunno what the situation in WI is)

it probably depends on case law, I think Robert said he didn't know this specific point in WI case law

and others have also pointed out that this can completely upend self-defense; if prosecutors can find _something_ you are doing wrong at the time of self defense, then tada, you are screwed

(and if you read any amount of law, you realize that everyone is always breaking the law :P)

Fair

https://youtu.be/ICNsmXyHrSk

2 mil bond

We knew this was likely to be the initial bond amount.

As 2 people had been killed.

Imagine going back in time and explaining this situation. So there these protest that turned to riots. Some armed men came to defend the property. 3 protesters were shot trying to disarm a man. Then the government tried to prosecute him. No you heard me right.

I'm pretty sure most state governments would attempt to prosecute a huge case like this, as not doing so likely would leave a lot of people questioning the system.

Which is why I surmise that they were very favorable to Kyle when they wrote their initial complaint itself.

Also: I'm still not sure what Kyle said while in custody, and if that was used as a means to prosecute.

I didn't see much mischaracterisation in the complaint itself, it was pretty factual.

Lol my scene was more like early America before the West was civilized.

Or even after really. I don’t think this would be prosecuted in a lot of places gun control became a big political issue.

When there wasn't really a thing like due process because Sheriffs were ridiculous?

Even after that, I see this prosecution as centering around gun control ultimately. You are right though, maybe he said something that was incriminating. But the first guy looked to be trying to disarm Kyle. Maybe I am not recalling correctly. That’s what it looked like to me though.

There is a witness statement from the person closest to Kyle when this occurred that said this was the case.

Which was stated in the initial complaint as well.

Some reporter from the Daily Caller IIRC.

Yeah so basically I don’t think anyone should be prosecuted for defending themselves for, being disarmed unlawfully.

Being chased down from someone trying to take their gun and throwing objects at them* and then hearing a gunshot behind him where said person was*

Fortunately it was Huber there this time representing Rittenhouse, not Pierce.

@Maw when I saw the complaint document, I thought the prosecutor was in the bag for Kyle

Derp not Huber, I forgot who they hired as a Defense Lawyer for Rittenhouse.

The Covington jokers

also a local WI lawyer

Linwood ?

yes

and Pierce

Barnes has spoken a lot about this

the entire situation is 🤮

(they are both in debt and under allegations of fraud and a bunch of other bad stuff; have apparently never even done criminal defense etc.)

they are great twitter trolls

but not great for Kyle

The huber kid is the skateboard kid that Id argue killed himself by grabbing the barrel of a rife and pulling it towards his chest against the finger on the trigger

The entire reason that the [redacted](Rosenbaum) was chasing kyle was because kyle produced a fire extinguisher to another memeber of his group wearing similar clothes and he used it to put out rosenbaums 2nd or 3rd fire attempt.

All the footage available should steamroll prosecution

I lost 2 personal long time friends trying to beg them to produce fact s showing that he was a white supremacist while the "this is what a cult" meme was going around. Their answer was if you support trump and police (like kyle) boom you got the label too. Well okay then guys, where do I pick up my schutzstaffel while I drags yalls character through the mud to the people you're trying to look good for.

Please don't blame the victims, or use such imagery in a demeaning way.

Regardless of the circumstances of self-defense, they are in fact victims.

> The entire reason that the pedophile (Rosenbaum) was chasing kyle was because kyle produced a fire extinguisher to another memeber of his group wearing similar clothes and he used it to put out rosenbaums 2nd or 3rd fire attempt.
@evildood89 please don't just call him by that adjective, it is needlessly disparaging and has nothing to do with the case

(it makes your argument look weak if you do that)

Facts are facts, I do apologize I am of the salty kind.

I don't mind people pointing it out

If Kyles facebook determines his character, Rosenbaums criminal records determine his.

but don't name people by an adjective

I mean you can, it is just very childish

I think your arguments are better than that

Edited out of respect.

thank you!

Appreciate it!

It seems like being a little pointed and then using well thought out metaphors works best at getting through to many and I forget myself in respectable company sometimes.

It's part of the channel rules is all.

Aye no, I apologize either way. I cant demand people are held accountable if I cant hold myself as such.

All good! More of a heads up for other folks as well.

Since we understand this is highly politically-charged and people are extremely divided on this case.

Hey that was me in the stream saying we shouldnt ban ALL trolly comments right away, need to hold out and hopefully reach people. So I see exactly how what Im doing is hypocritical and its just venting. As realz said I hope to hold myself to higher standards because I am way more clever than that !

That's the spirit.