Could well reflect their moral state. The assertion from Hamlet "There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so" resonates with me but certainly not some who think there is a metaphysical moral fabric.

Interesting... so, is it wrong to believe that gender is only constructed?

For sure though, you have your own value system and matching your moral framework to that and actually acting in accordance with it will give you a peace of sorts. Part of going your own way isn't it? I feel paying 10k for an engagement ring to throw on a woman's hand for the purpose of gloating and status is nonsensical and immoral, so doing such a thing for conformity's sake will tear at my own constructed moral fabric.

I don't believe in moral theories or values. And I don't find simply caring for others to be sufficient enough to guarantee a moral framework... I have come to abandon value belief systems. They all fail.

Ergo the question, do we have moral knowledge?

Maybe you agree with Shakespeare? "Nothing either good or bad" ...but...Some have "moral knowledge" of what is right and wrong in their own realm, "thinking makes it so."

You probably have some sense of what is moral to yourself, but you can also end up feeling like shit living in a way not befitting your own (unrealized) moral sense. It is possible to develop a moral knowledge that fits your understanding of the world and to some extent influences your behaviour. Some of us are less certain of our righteousness, while some have no problem chopping off heads for videos in accordance with their own moral superiority.

All of those would imply that those people would have moral knowledge of some sort, but how do they know that exactly?

How does anyone know if raping someone is worse than donating to charity?

Hello

They do not. They may only know that their moral sensibilities align with their values.

Vc one time

But how does one know what one's values are?

Asking ones self

How many times and what if one values one thing at one moment only to abandon it the next?

Experience only, I'd say. Sadly, some receive it from others in the form of religion/politics/"mommy said so"/friends/conformity/TV commercials.

Voice chat

You only have the moment

Rabbit hole discussion. :)

What if someone values raping children?

Your values will change throughout your life.

You should focus on the moment only

Not what one should or would become later

@BlaqShiep Which moment? The one now or later?

If one values raping children they will be shunned by all

Now is the only moment

So what if people shun them? Why should they care?

You are over complicating now

Who cares what they experience... What do YOU value?

That is what is important

Not sure...

That is for you to find out

I'm not even sure if value is a thing that can be understood...

Here's a thought though--how many of us valued pussy. But come kenjataimu...as sure as the sun.

Dont over generalize an objective thing of value what we value is inherently subjective

I never valued "pussy"

I did value women...

Instinctually i assume...

And now you do not.. at that moment you valued women, and in this one, you do not... So which moment is supposed to be the one of value?

At the moment i did... That was that version of myself

I know who he was and i do not fault him

So, is there one self, many or none?

Who i am now... I must proceed in the correct fashion or i am blasphemous to my own valuss

There is one moment

If you cannot find a fault with that self, why change him?

Disregard self... Focus on now

The moment

But you just admitted that you needed a self in order to be in a particular moment...

I feel you BlaqShiep...but once a nut was had, have you never questioned your "values" beforehand? Felt ashamed of tolerating a conversation where your woman denigrates a coworker for shoe choice, or quickly closed a porn tab after finishing only to suddenly wish you hadn't spent so much time on it and quickly went back to doing something more rewarding?

In that Moment there was no fault... To behave like him now... Is a fault

Of course i have

values are dynamic, at least I fear so...

But you just said that there is but only one moment? How can you suggest that a self at one moment is bad after this one, yet all moments are one?

But you answer your own question

I felt shame

Therefore there must be correction

Its really that simple

So, shame determines which self is correct?

When there is no shame... Thete is no need to correct

One factor yes

Shame is a motivator

What about a woman's shame?

Fuck her

What about YOU... This MGTOW

Not how can we change her

How do you adapt?

What do YOU do?

So... do you pick and choose which shame is worth change and which is not?

Explain

Seven of Swords -- that's the fucked up thing isn't it? Shame comes AFTER -- for it to determine something....that's a curse, you'd never realize till after you betrayed your own standards eh?

Haha yeah boss

So, you have to betray your own standards in order to know them?

Life is a cruel teacher... Gives you the test first then the lesson

Seven

maybe you do -- it is trial and learn reality, language, shame, morals, values, etc.

You are over intellectualizing

Who are you now

How much ought I intellectualize?

There is no generalization that must be made

You are trying to come up with a steady philosophy... There is only now

If you feel shame... Seek to avoid shame

If you deel strong and triumphant then...

Seven -- just try out living in accordance with your own sensibilities. We cannot answer for you. You must live your own way.

Yet you couldn't distinguish which "now" is more worth the time than others... so why should "now" matter?

Its self evident, but not easy

Lets voice chat

There is not different nows

Only NOW

Who i was when i was 16... That now is not NOW

You are complicating the uncomplicated

I got confused reading this.

it's a bit too abstract

Idk about abstract but its paradoxical... We want to generalize and categorize to simplify... But its an ongoing process

So it should evolve

We are not all knowing

We discover

I'll be in voice chat if anyone wants to hang

give me a few minutes.

Im there

This could be interesting