Could you explain to me what you mean by order? I'm confused by how you're using it here.

I don't want to interrupt your discussion, so I'll butt out

Order is best defined by its antonym, Chaos

Chaos, in terms of humans, is anarchy

this is getting more confusing

Political Satanism, if you will

I don't think anarchy and satan are going to help me out here.

to abstract one level further, perfect order is like a machine, a clock or car

What do you mean by order? On its own. My understanding of order is an arrangement, or organization according to a set of instructions.

every piece in its place with its specific function it was made to perform

what is an example of something disordered then?

if a clock is ordered becaus each piece was placed intentionally, would disorder be an arrangement with no intention behind it?

no

well

it depends i guess

directed vs undirected chaos

Maybe a riot, but then the riotors are order amougnst themselves.

That would be directed chaos

Chaos against "the system"

I think we typically call things ordered or disordered based on how people tend to organize things.

pure chaos cannot exist because even chaotic things have laws like gravity etc acting upon them

so the ocean, while chaotic, is also somewhat ordered

I don't know that you could really call anything disordered besides a few really niche examples

order is law and predictability

predictability is a whole other concept though I worry about invoking that here.

taken from a wide enough lens, anything can have order to it

fair enough

well not anything

I think non-computable numbers could be considered disordered

as there is no way to produce them

i consider those to be more like

Well, frozen ice typically considered an ordered system. Low entropy. But a puddle from the same ice cube is in chaos. Littld order and high entropy. Perhaps the same thinking could be applied?

indivisible units of information

the indivisible unit is a really hard concept for me to explain

like

@ChaosNatural this is how I think of it, there isn't really an absolute order, or chaos. We it's just a judgement of how far a system is from how people would typically organize things

its a baseline

idk its a concept i cant really put into words very well

so let's step back a bit

we began by saying society is ideally ordered, or rather, the very definition of order. But I think we've kind of deconstructed the idea of order altogether at this point.

Information, at least as it applies to the sciences, can't be destroyed. Much like energy.