Message from Deejay from Earth in Willem Petzer Live Chat #info-wars
I'm not arguing for or against either flat earth or global earth. I just expressing my observations
@Sheamus I have no doubt whatsoever that it is a deliberate fraud. Perpetrated with intent to deceive. Because you don't teach your slaves how to make guns. And trust me when I say the big picture is a thousand times more unbelievable than flat earth itself.
Oh yeah, I've gone to dark places, the heart is deceptive, and desperately wicked; and i know it. I know how great the deception could be.
Well the earth is not totally in a perfect circle it round but not perfectly round. Round papato shaped. Moon does not spin... I wanted to say that it does not make sense for earth to be flat or even near by flat. If it was we would not have had seasons.
@Tjoppie That is not correct sorry. The Heliocentric model can not describe seasons or even length of day. It fails logically long before you even get to the experiments.
Quoting "Heaven and Earth by Gabrielle Henriet,
“The theory of the rotation of the earth may once and for all be definitely disposed of as impracticable by pointing out the following inadvertence. It is said that the rotation takes twenty-four hours and that its speed is uniform, in which case, necessarily, days and nights should have an identical duration of twelve hours each all the year round. The sun should invariably rise in the morning and set in the evening at the same hours, with the result that it would be the equinox every day from the 1st of January to the 31st of December. One should stop and reflect on this before saying that the earth has a movement of rotation. How does the system of gravitation account for the seasonal variations in the lengths of days and nights if the earth rotates at a uniform speed in twenty-four hours!?”
The mark of an intellectual man, is a man that entertain an idea without accepting it. So run with it, entertain the idea, and then see how that impacts your perception and perspective, then you know what to look for as evidence. When you find that evidence exactly as your predicted it... Would that not be the truth? Of course, it could totally be a joke, but at least you would know. See what it offers, and how it impacts your life and understanding of the world around you... We all kind of feel helpless now, struggling to solve problems. Clearly our understanding is not what it could be, because then we would have solutions to problems.
Hope i don't come off too crazy, but if you are here reading any of this, you obviously curious.
Gleasons map from 1892
I've read all of this, and I don't see a point in arguing it out, because it seems the arguments are ideologically driven, and quite honestly it looks like it is all based on fundamental misunderstandings of the concepts presented. That would lead to circular arguments that I don't believe progress could be made on. I will say I've presented astrophysics research to NASA. I am of fan of history and both models go back to ancient Greece, and proof being found all the way back then. I am also a pilot, and I can perceive the curvature of the planet with my own eyes at a surprisingly low altitude.
That said, there certainly is plenty of junk science out there. There is plenty of reasons to hate the education system/gov etc, without even having to go into anything they deny. They are open about so much nonsense they do, I see no need for even delving into conspiracy issues. I fear you have chosen the wrong hill to die on here.
Correct, it's ideological. Ideology plays a big role in our perception, and so ideology is essentially perception. On one side of the argument, there are people who have ideas, on the other, the perception that ideas have people. One side sees open minded people as conspiracy theories, the other sees the narrow minded as the conspiracy theorists. Even coming down to subjects as controversial as slavery, one side cannot fathom a reason to justify, the other perfectly capable of justifying it reasonably. It's flippen interesting to see how differently people perceive and reason. But yes it comes down to ideology, even those that reject ideology, are subject to ideology.
https://youtu.be/nUFMZkxochs?t=5375 (EXPERIMENT #1 Showing no apparent drift whatsoever)
(EXPERIMENT #2 - 6 hours - still no movement) https://youtu.be/IGPSjgv9t3E
""Idealogically driven" my arse.
Well it is ideologically driven... What else drives our ability to reason?
Definition of ideology. plural ideologies. 1 : visionary theorizing. 2 a : a systematic body of concepts especially about human life or culture. b : a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an individual, group, or culture.
@Sheamus Our ability to reason is driven by our natural innate curiosity about the world. You know how curious little kids are? That ability is supposed to always be with us throughout our lives. We are supposed to try and fathom the unfathomable mysteries of life. And that is why the Educational Indoctrination system exists - to cure the curiosity and turn us into a tax-paying wage-slaves who thinks they know everything about the world and there is nothing more to learn. - If you're not curious about the world, you might as well be dead. EDIT Fixed typos
Yes agreed, i always like to think curiousity is the voice of reason. I'm open minded, and i see your perspective as well. But curiousity still doesn't take away from the fact that our understanding is based on our perception. Since we don't create it, only observe it, we therefore don't create ideas, but instead recognize ideas and willingly serve the good ideas and reject the bad, or ignorantly get enslaved by other ideas, deceptively believing it to be our own for profit most likely... (Those people that let their emotions dictate their reason, and exploit others feelings.)
Ideology is at the core of our ability to reason, curiousity itself is not reason, but it is the means that lead to intellectual stimulation, where as feelings the means of emotional stimulation. Some reason with with their feelings, others feelings dictate their reason. There's only one truth, but many lies.
@Sheamus Can I also just say that in order to be able to reason logically as well as think critically, one needs a baseline of truth - one major proven thing - and from there, all knowledge about the rest of the system can be deduced logically. And that is where the flat earth comes in. The most easily proven conspiracy of all time. Also the biggest.
@Sheamus "Ideology is at the core of our ability to reason". I have to disagree with that one. Ideology is a modern man-made contraption. My reasoning is driven by a thirst for truth. Has been for the last 20 years or so.
Yes, and that truth is an idea none the less. The idea of truth is a concept. And you have a collection or body of concepts that make up your understanding and help you understand how the pieces fit together, and how to interact with the world to get the desired results. This is what ideology is.
How do you define ideology then, if not a set of ideas and principles that influence our understanding and interpretation of our environment and solve our problems?
Correct, however, the nature of reality as we experience it every day is what I'm on about. All my Flat Earth arguments are based in hard science - not ideology. It is all about the Zetetic method of investigation, which is not to try and prove a point, but to examine and test and see what something actually is and how it works. And when you find out what the earth is and how it works, you will start getting an understanding of what a human being actually is. And when we find out exactly & scientifically what this place is and what we are... maybe then we can define our true purpose here on this earth.
I'm not disagreeing with you on that, but your method of science is an idea in itself, it's an idea of how to determine the truth. People can't agree on what the truth is because we can't agree on a means to determine truth, one prefers a method they themselves can apply and witness it for themselves, another prefers the idea that an authority they trust in tells them what the truth is. And this can be broken down into many layers. So as far as ideology goes, its real, it exists, that's what spiritual nature and realm is, that's what drives our cognitive experiences. Ideas really impact experiences and what we call reality.
You can't go and say you have no idea what truth or reality is can you? Let me repeat that. "You can't go and say you have NO IDEA what truth or reality is". You must have an idea, idea is the key-word in ideology.
Does a river need to have the idea of flowing down-hill before actually flowing down-hill? Or does it just do what's in its nature. Things can happen without an idea.
Lol nature is governed by principles, so is the water that flows with the idea of gravity... =)
Ah yes. Nature IS governed by a set of principles. And when you can accurately measure those principles, you may start getting a glimpse into the very nature of man. And isn't that what "Faith" is? An absolute understanding of the nature of your reality and your place in it? See how faith is the same as scientific proof? 😉
I'm out, night all.
Yes, and faith is in the principles, the idea you've been observing and know to be true. Understanding the idea to the degree that you can explain it confidently. But that's leading into another conversation, let's first find common ground on what ideology is.
Ek het die gesprek nou geniet...
May I ask why it matters?
Jy is welkom in saam in te spring, kop eerste.
Because sharing a common understanding is how we can continue to reason together, and ensure we don't have to wrestle with prejudices trying to distract us. If we can't bother to reason and find common ground, how do we expect to share the same space together?
Idealogy in my view is just one more form of social engineering / manipulation. We need to just be, in stead of trying to be something. Because at some point someone is going to write about about what he thinks we should be. Then for the rest of time everyone else who reads that book is going to try and be like that in-stead of living for themselves. Society as we know it is a gigantic fraud.