Message from Tjoppie in Willem Petzer Live Chat #info-wars
If you had an argument why are you spamming it here? Publish your thesis and research on the subject in a science forum where it can be discussed. Pro tip: memes are not an argument.
@cµrvy Well then why don't you just post the evidence for your model to make me go away? You completely ignored one of my previous posts which tells you which peer-reviewed papers you can go look up. If you had any proof of your Heliocentric philosophical fantasy you would have posted it by now. Edit Typo
what benefit is there to you to care about this issue or to attempt to convince others?
@Hyko Great question. It's more about the implications. Firstly, educational. If the earth actually is flat, how and why is Heliocentrism taught if it's not the truth? What does that say about the entire education system? (Same goes for evolution by the way). Secondly (and more importantly in my opinion) , we have the spiritual implications. People say they believe in God, the Bible etc, and they are Christian and believe that their God, who made the Earth, LIED to them in their very own Bible.
The Heliocentric model is ENTIRELY theoretical. There exists not ONE piece of empirical evidence for Gravity, the axial rotation of earth, or the missing curvature.
That was a genuinely good question, environment shapes our perspective and our understanding. If we could be taught a lie, and believe it, then sure our understanding is conditioned to understand the world differently than what it really is. Deception of the highest degree, a lie so big, you couldn't comprehend it. It matters to anyone who is reasonable, while others content with their own knowledge, which is to be ignorant. I take interest in this conspiracy myself, because it matters to me what i understand the truth to be, and so many exposing controversy of deceptions and lies surrounding NASA really doesn't comfort me and average Joe that cannot exactly go and check for myself. So i keep what works, and what doesn't work i discard, and whatever idea produces the most accurate results to what i want to achieve, the closer i am to the truth. I think for everyone else interested in this are curious for similar reasons. It's interesting stuff to see the variety of reasons people use to argue their points of view and how they define justifiable evidence.
If the earth was flat why are the moon and other planets spinning in circles?
Excellen post @Sheamus , you nailed it. The "Education" system is nothing more than forced indoctrination. Memorize & repeat.
And repetition is the most basic form of mind control.
Yes a valid question i like to ask as well... I'm a space fanatic myself, i enjoy the science fictions, but i do have a tendency to think of space as a fiction, because science fictions tend to try to portray a liberal utopia, which also is a fantasy in reality. Is it coincidence that the push for this reasoning and belief is what lead the world to what it is today? I mean consider they way they think and reason, and then do so with everyone who has a different view, how their views impact their reality and choices.
I'm not arguing for or against either flat earth or global earth. I just expressing my observations
@Sheamus I have no doubt whatsoever that it is a deliberate fraud. Perpetrated with intent to deceive. Because you don't teach your slaves how to make guns. And trust me when I say the big picture is a thousand times more unbelievable than flat earth itself.
Oh yeah, I've gone to dark places, the heart is deceptive, and desperately wicked; and i know it. I know how great the deception could be.
Well the earth is not totally in a perfect circle it round but not perfectly round. Round papato shaped. Moon does not spin... I wanted to say that it does not make sense for earth to be flat or even near by flat. If it was we would not have had seasons.
@Tjoppie That is not correct sorry. The Heliocentric model can not describe seasons or even length of day. It fails logically long before you even get to the experiments.
Quoting "Heaven and Earth by Gabrielle Henriet,
“The theory of the rotation of the earth may once and for all be definitely disposed of as impracticable by pointing out the following inadvertence. It is said that the rotation takes twenty-four hours and that its speed is uniform, in which case, necessarily, days and nights should have an identical duration of twelve hours each all the year round. The sun should invariably rise in the morning and set in the evening at the same hours, with the result that it would be the equinox every day from the 1st of January to the 31st of December. One should stop and reflect on this before saying that the earth has a movement of rotation. How does the system of gravitation account for the seasonal variations in the lengths of days and nights if the earth rotates at a uniform speed in twenty-four hours!?”
The mark of an intellectual man, is a man that entertain an idea without accepting it. So run with it, entertain the idea, and then see how that impacts your perception and perspective, then you know what to look for as evidence. When you find that evidence exactly as your predicted it... Would that not be the truth? Of course, it could totally be a joke, but at least you would know. See what it offers, and how it impacts your life and understanding of the world around you... We all kind of feel helpless now, struggling to solve problems. Clearly our understanding is not what it could be, because then we would have solutions to problems.
Hope i don't come off too crazy, but if you are here reading any of this, you obviously curious.
Gleasons map from 1892
I've read all of this, and I don't see a point in arguing it out, because it seems the arguments are ideologically driven, and quite honestly it looks like it is all based on fundamental misunderstandings of the concepts presented. That would lead to circular arguments that I don't believe progress could be made on. I will say I've presented astrophysics research to NASA. I am of fan of history and both models go back to ancient Greece, and proof being found all the way back then. I am also a pilot, and I can perceive the curvature of the planet with my own eyes at a surprisingly low altitude.
That said, there certainly is plenty of junk science out there. There is plenty of reasons to hate the education system/gov etc, without even having to go into anything they deny. They are open about so much nonsense they do, I see no need for even delving into conspiracy issues. I fear you have chosen the wrong hill to die on here.
Correct, it's ideological. Ideology plays a big role in our perception, and so ideology is essentially perception. On one side of the argument, there are people who have ideas, on the other, the perception that ideas have people. One side sees open minded people as conspiracy theories, the other sees the narrow minded as the conspiracy theorists. Even coming down to subjects as controversial as slavery, one side cannot fathom a reason to justify, the other perfectly capable of justifying it reasonably. It's flippen interesting to see how differently people perceive and reason. But yes it comes down to ideology, even those that reject ideology, are subject to ideology.
https://youtu.be/nUFMZkxochs?t=5375 (EXPERIMENT #1 Showing no apparent drift whatsoever)
(EXPERIMENT #2 - 6 hours - still no movement) https://youtu.be/IGPSjgv9t3E
""Idealogically driven" my arse.
Well it is ideologically driven... What else drives our ability to reason?
Definition of ideology. plural ideologies. 1 : visionary theorizing. 2 a : a systematic body of concepts especially about human life or culture. b : a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an individual, group, or culture.
@Sheamus Our ability to reason is driven by our natural innate curiosity about the world. You know how curious little kids are? That ability is supposed to always be with us throughout our lives. We are supposed to try and fathom the unfathomable mysteries of life. And that is why the Educational Indoctrination system exists - to cure the curiosity and turn us into a tax-paying wage-slaves who thinks they know everything about the world and there is nothing more to learn. - If you're not curious about the world, you might as well be dead. EDIT Fixed typos
Yes agreed, i always like to think curiousity is the voice of reason. I'm open minded, and i see your perspective as well. But curiousity still doesn't take away from the fact that our understanding is based on our perception. Since we don't create it, only observe it, we therefore don't create ideas, but instead recognize ideas and willingly serve the good ideas and reject the bad, or ignorantly get enslaved by other ideas, deceptively believing it to be our own for profit most likely... (Those people that let their emotions dictate their reason, and exploit others feelings.)
Ideology is at the core of our ability to reason, curiousity itself is not reason, but it is the means that lead to intellectual stimulation, where as feelings the means of emotional stimulation. Some reason with with their feelings, others feelings dictate their reason. There's only one truth, but many lies.
@Sheamus Can I also just say that in order to be able to reason logically as well as think critically, one needs a baseline of truth - one major proven thing - and from there, all knowledge about the rest of the system can be deduced logically. And that is where the flat earth comes in. The most easily proven conspiracy of all time. Also the biggest.