they were about empowerment...

I know its a small distinction, but I feel its important

When something demonizes in order to empower, is there a difference?

I don't really have any sort of rock to stand on in this but that I didn't FEEL threatened during 3rd Wave... but I feel it now

to be clear, I was actively involved in the Riot Grrl movement, I attended Bikini Kill's shows

I never felt hatred, I didn't feel unwelcome

I feel that now

I can't explain the distinction, but I don't feel safe in my town with 4th Wave, but I felt totally fine in 3rd Wave

That's fair. MeToo wasn't a thing then, people didn't realize that affirmative consent meant jailing men having drunk consensual sex, whereas that is much more trumped up now.

Men are trash was less mainstream

I can see a lot of how 3rd Wave is now the roots of 4th Wave

but I liked 3rd Wave... so its hard for me to dislike it for empowering and creating 4th Wave

its like seeing something you loved used for evil purposes

Let me put it another way, 3rd wave was mostly panned for being rediculous. Mansplaining and patriarchy

right, they were panned by 2nd Wave Feminists, the Feminist Establishment

Ohohoho, the feminist establishment isn't 2nd wave really.

But we pan 3rd wave for hate. All it has to be is to talk about "patriarchy" as if that's some gender neutral thing. But like a totally non-racist "jewry" (and yes, some anti-semites insist on this) it's just a veneer.

and that patriarchy and privilege requiring power as an ingredient, that's blood libel

and its false to begin with, whole-cloth historical revisionism

2nd wave had its stinkers too, Valenti and all, but the feminist establishment rejected that during 2nd wave. The objectional part there was more about gendering shit like DV through Koss' malicious research and applying gender neutrality only where it benefited women

this is all just making me think that I'm judging 4th Wave too harshly... like are there good things coming out of 4th Wave that I don't know about?

if 3rd Wave could be responsible for Roller Derby and Riot Grrl... does 4th Wave have something positive about it?

I'm telling you Riot Grrl was all aboard the hate movement, and all in on DV myths

well it was a subset of Punk

I do like punk

4th wave, if it does something good it'll probably be breaking down gender roles a tad more. They've also toned down the DV myths a lot since 3rd wave. But 4th wave is some scary shit.

They'll probably go further on paternity leave

its having a massive impact on Hollywood, which might be a good thing in the long run

Well, female protagonists in hollywood yes, everything else, not so much

I watch anime though which is much less feminist and never had a problem with female protagonists

well its dragged the sexploitation prevalent in Hollywood out into the open

No it did not

They buried the MenToo folks

The sexploitation prevalent in Hollywood largely favored women in the first place.

well Kevin Spacey's career didn't survive

thats something

But I hold a pretty dim view of Hollywood as a sexual industry in general.

yeah I think I'm reaching... I'm just a little unbalanced because I'm questioning my views on 3rd Wave so much now

MeToo was never about hollywood as far as I can tell, once it took off it was all about projecting power and turning victimhood points into popularity and revenge

But I do want to say is that people like to exaggerate the difference between 2nd wave and 3rd wave.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/9v6tqj/a_list_about_feminism_misandry_for_anyone_who/