So what is your point?

My point is when men are being violent, it's called toxic masculinity

No it is not

Anyone who says that is poorly informed

And when women use emotional violence it's toxic femininity

And Yet It Is Not

It's the mainstream view though

You keep making these ridiculous claims that show you have no clue what you are talking about, but it really is not

Let's hear your definition of both

Societal expectations of __________ that are harmful to the gender they are applied to.

IE hyperstoicism for men and unrealistic beauty standards for women

When a man uses violence, your kind of scholars like Kimmel says that it's him seeking to be dominant than what he really is.

My man Indigo, your passion is bright, but you come in guns-a-blazing, and it will hurt you more than help you in most cases, so I'm glad you asked for definitions. Add your own for the term "toxic" in reference to -ininities.

Which is in fact a societal expectation of men to be dominant

But is it harmful to that man?

Violence? Then it is

Dominance? Then it depends

And specifically how is violence harmful to the man?

I would not contest that society still views that men are to be the more dominant, but the definition of proper domination is changing, and the inequality is beginning to fade. This will be a totally different discussion in 20 years.

@Dan da Dad just debating dude.

Proper meaning actionable. Work/pay bills/make financial decisions/decide where family lives - currently still expected of men moreso than women

You need proof for violence being harmful for anyone

Jail time

Emotional problems

Improper - denying the ability to use the car or phone, mandating basic human needs like what to eat or wear - is legally actionable

@Dan da Dad it's not just the society but women who put the expectations on men.

Violence is actionable regardless of who initiated and the gender of the victim. The problem is we are on the tail end of the stigma

It's a society thing. And society is changing about that.

Society and women are practically synonyms

Debatable, and I take a differing stance

See, who gets, more sex... The alpha frat boy or the nerd

It's almost universally true that dominant men get more sex

And hence dominance is a gender expectation on men by women

To base society on the value of sex and who gets more is kind of skewed...I don't think I can follow with that as the basis of how we govern and tax and punish

Society evolved through sexual selection

Sex is the most important driver of behavior

It's not just sex women decide. You only have to look at what gains traction, what thinga society does for women in application of law, where research is aimed, pension age, how each sex is judged and why, and you can see that society is completely geared on making life easier for women.

Toxic masculinity as you and PM describe may exist, but it strips masculinity of any good qualities, and I disagree that many feminists today recognise that definition when speaking of men

Right. Foreign policy dictates a lot of our own privacy laws stateside because we need a reasonable basis for how we are protected from each other before we can dictate how we are protected abroad

If sex is the driver, than woman gaining suffrage and political position and business/landownership in the last few decades means we are the weaker gender and losing, as opposed to us all becoming better as a whole, and them simply closing the gap

It's the cause of the incel phenomenon

The lower strata of men are losing